Ajaz Karim found guilty

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aliburns
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Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by aliburns » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:15 pm

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by richardb » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:18 pm

He has been convicted of the last two counts and remanded in custody.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by Avon » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:38 pm

I for one am not remotely surprised.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by LHA » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:47 pm

Guilty on all counts. Looking at nine years I'd say. The judge has had her sentences increased twice by the Court of Appeal and won't want that to happen again. As an ageing sex offender he won't enjoy prison on bit They have turned off the commenting on the OB facebook page so that people can pretend this isn't an issue - disgusting.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by richardb » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:02 am

It is never easy to assess a case from newspaper reports as reporters tend to be selective and go for the more salacious parts of the case, but it did seem to be a very strong case against Karim. When he came out with all that codswallop about performing an alternative therapy, it was clear his goose was cooked.

The press coverage did not reflect very well on the school and some former staff came out of it very badly for protecting Karim. There is going to be a hefty bill to be paid for not protecting pupils. There are a lot of questions for the school to answer in due course.

In terms of punishment, Karim has to rank with Burr plus half as much again as he did not plead guilty. So it is 10 years plus in my view. I can't see the judge wanting a hat trick of AG references.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by Spoonbill » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:35 am

richardb wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:02 am
It is never easy to assess a case from newspaper reports as reporters tend to be selective and go for the more salacious parts of the case, but it did seem to be a very strong case against Karim.
I'm interested to read Richard's comment, as I myself found the entire case quite otherwise. Unless the reporters were deliberately withholding certain seamier details, it appeared to me that 'indecent assaults' as such hadn't been carried out at all. I expected a Not Guilty verdict combined with some sort of caution.

Yes, Ajaz Karim repeatedly behaved extremely inappropriately towards the pupils in his charge, to the extent of being a complete and utter jackass, but there's no mention of his having touched any of them intimately, as was the case with Webb and Burr. True, he ran his hands over their half-stripped bodies, but the victims don't seem to have mentioned their genital areas as having been touched or that anything sexually suggestive was ever said to them under such intimate circumstances. Ajaz Karim never 'made a move' whilst massaging them, nor did any of the complainants say anything to suggest that he was visibly sexually aroused.

By his own admission he kissed a couple of girls against their will, but as far as I'm aware that's not something you'd get sent to prison for, unless it were part of a larger picture that involved stalking etc. Totally inappropriate behaviour from a schoolteacher, to be sure, but a crime? Was Georgy Porgy sent to prison for ten years?

It won't surprise me at all if Ajaz Karim appeals whatever his sentence proves to be. His defence barrister must have been absolutely useless.

The very last thing I'm doing is condoning his appalling behaviour, but I still don't see what sort of crime has been committed. With Webb and Burr it was clear cut, but Ajaz Karim simply seems to have been a pest who should've been sacked without a reference (or with a bad one). If anyone committed an offence, it was the school authorities in allowing him to stay on board and then palming him off on another school with a glowing reference.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by richardb » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:26 am

Indecent assault was an assault "in circumstances of indecency".

Quite why Karim was massaging a semi naked pupil on the floor of his study is a bit of as puzzle. I suspect the jury will have had to decide: (i) was any consent from the pupil genuine or was it obtained by Karim misrepresenting what he was doing; and (ii) why was he laying hands on a semi naked pupil who he should have stayed well away from.

So far as the first question is concerned, it is clear that the jury was satisfied that the pupils would not have consented had they known (as they now do) what his motive was. The answer to the second question is obvious - his intentions were not proper and were naughty.

I agree that the school has a lot to answer for.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by J.R. » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:02 pm

Some interesting points of view above. Naughty ??? A bl00dy sight worse than naughty in my book !!!

Interestingly, he has been remanded to prison prior to sentencing in July. I imagine the sentencing Judge will be taking advice from senior law officers after the two previous sentencing fiascos.

I'd reckon, as above, 10 years as a starting point. I honestly believe any appeal would be a waste of time.

Still more not-guilty pleas to be heard later. Possibly another reason for the sentencing delay.
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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by richardb » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:10 pm

It normally takes 4-6 weeks for a probation report (PSR) so I was surprised to see such a long delay before sentence, especially as he is remanded.

My educated guesses are either that there will be a psychiatric report or that the judge is keeping open the option of sentencing with others if that is necessary.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by Avon » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:12 pm

I remember Karim. He was a vain and arrogant man, but ultimately a weak one - he sided with the cooler kids against the weaker ones and was swift to belittle those others didn’t like. In such regards he wasn’t unique - but he made significant capital of his refugee status. In retrospect and now having met many refugees he didn’t fit the refugee type - I find a lot of refugees to have more introspective intelligence and humanity. He didn’t. He was overweeningly posturing and conceited.

Ten years or twelve - it doesn’t matter. Fcuk him.

What the case has revealed is systemic and lax attention to the duty of care expected of Richard Poulton, Rob Sillett and Elizabeth Cairncross. I’ve often felt that this was an uncaring team, but what’s also evident in my view is the incompetence. The School must be allowed to recover from this affair and others that may come - but as I now reflect on my time at CH I feel that I’m part of a generation that was neglected and potentially at risk because senior leaders at the school didn’t care enough.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by aliburns » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:22 pm

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by Spoonbill » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:29 pm

I remember going along to a House Baths session when I was 14 and being struck down by a nasty bout of cramp in one of my legs while I was swimming, so I hauled myself out onto the side of the pool. The master who was supervising the session saw that I had cramp, so he hunkered down at the poolside and massaged my calf till the pain went away. Bearing in mind that I was only wearing a pair of swimming trunks at the time, should I consider myself to have been indecently assaulted?

If not, then why is Ajaz Karim facing a gaol sentence? The only difference seems to be that Ajaz Karim was a bit of a creep with a very large ego, while the master who massaged my leg wasn't.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by aliburns » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:46 pm

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by rockfreak » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:20 pm

I can understand where Spoony's coming from. Are we going a bit over the top with the sentencing hopes of ten years and the like? The evening news has just announced sixteen years given to a bloke who threw acid over two people and gave them life-changing injuries. I wouldn't demur from the latter sentence but two thirds of that for Karim's offences? Something a bit out of kilter in my opinion.

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Re: Ajaz Karim found guilty

Post by richardb » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:37 pm

Sentencing is now done in accordance with guidelines issued by the Sentencing Council. It is based on the American grid system.

Rightly or wrongly, sentencing in sex cases has gone sky high. 10 years for Karim would be lenient.

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