Bullying - the rights/wrong and your views.

[Jude]

I think you will be pleased to know that physical bullying with the girls at Ch is now much reduced from the times you have mentioned

Thank goodness - although I expect it has been driven underground as all these things are - if a girl cries she is setupon by what seems to be a hoarde of maurauding dogs - the culture of boarding schools as well as day schools is that "x" is the leader and no one forget it! and anyone else gets bitched, thumped and generally bullied.. It still happends - even at the 6th Form college my daughter now attends - she can't wait to leave, as she finds the to and fro of bully to bullied most confusing and depressing - I can't say I blame her!

If bullying were to be totally ripped out and got rid of - what would replace it? Nature abhors a vaccum, we got rid of smallpox - and we got HIV and AIDS - what happens when they find a cure for the common cold? AT least we know that bullying exsists, and most people can see where it is happeneing and to whom - (and oftem by who) and yes a quiet talk to each doesn't necesarily mean it will go away - but then punnishment only makes it worse - so how do we as a group as well as society resolve bullying?

[Mid A 15]

May I suggest that we are involved here ina subject which deserves to be explored in great depth; I am not suggesting that it be dropped.

This thread started in respect of the deletion of certain posts and the expulsion (can I use that word accurately here?) of a subscriber. From all accounts (and I saw only one side of the story) it appears to have been justified and in any case Julian does have (and is accorded) plenipotentiary powers here.

Therefore can the threads be split?

As for bullying, it is within human nature for some to seek to enforce their will over others by any means possible. They simply have to be made to realise that such behaviour wil not be tolerated. There are those who claim that you have to understand such people - they are perhaps the real cause of the problem in that they create excuses for such behaviour. Unfortunately a simple talking to will not suffice - it is too soft. A year in a barred stone room might help but is more likely to make them more circumpect as was that person whose behaviour at CH put me in the sicker.

David you ask too much - J&S can't split the thread as it has become too interwoven - you obviously don't knit! However, yes it is very interesting that this topic raises it's head frequently and in various threads throughout the forum - perhaps we should all meet and hold an open face forum (at a mental institute of someones choosing - Wootton Lawn here is quite nice I hear!! ) - it is clear that the levels of bullying change as to how you were bullied, how "soft" you are/were, the age it happened, how long it lasted etc... and everyone has a different view - just as well or we would all be as bored as Hell in here!

bon soir

Well David the threads did get split, and with them I lost control.... i will edit it out as Hendrik will learn that in time getting it all wrong is the norm!

Bullying goes on and on, and no one says anything because to do so would make them lose face.. I have just had a row with my son, who after smoking cannabis too much I asked to find alternative accomodation.. he took that as I threw him out.... today he arrives in car no 8 to "fix" car no 7 which has been sitting on my drive now for 4 months - to say I am peed off with a smashed windscreen rusting car on my drive is being kind... twice I have given him the chance to sort it out. He forgot Mothers day until he sister texted him, he threw that back in my face today, so I asked why he always come here unprepared to do the things he said he wanted to do (today was to put something on the white car, but not fix it, and the red car soundsl ike a tractor...) with that he stormed out and said he wouldn't bother to come home again. So perhaps today I have bullied him as I am fed up of having a rusting heap on my drive, and that I am taken for granted and will always provide the tools for him to use, loose or break... Or is he being a bully by not apologising for not bothering to say sorry about Mothers Day, and for generally trying to get me to do things for him? Yes I know parents help their offspring, but when it is take take take I am afraid I get a bit cross and will not give anymore - if he had really wanted to fix his car - surely he would have arrived with the tools to do it?

Speaking as a parent myself your difficulties with your son have nothing to do with bullying in my opinion but everything to do with boundaries.

Your son is now an adult so the boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable behaviour in the home are different than for a child.

Whatever your (general your not just Jude your) views on the rights and wrongs of it cannabis is an illegal drug. You (Jude) are therefore completely within your rights to prohibit or restrict your son's use of it in YOUR HOME. Equally you are within your rights not to have your drive used as a scrapyard on a permanent basis.

My oldest daughter has returned home after some years away and the transition has sometimes been difficult for all of us. She has been used to pleasing herself in her own place which does not always suit a family routine. We have sat down and agreed some (flexible when necessary) ground rules and touchwood things now work reasonably well.

[sport!]

the gandhi quote which someone nearly got right is: 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'. it is one of my favourites...

Hendrik
1: you obvioulsy never listend to you RE lessons, or you would have realised that an eye for an eye comes from the OLD TESTAMENT, not a Ghandi film quote.

In Hendrik's defence, wasn't the quote a clever take on the Old Testament by Gandhi?

Also, I feel Hendrik has valid points about the practicality of referring bullying to a third party for "justice". Many housemasters would have told you to go away and sort it out yourself because there would be no proof, or maybe just because they thought it was character building to stand up for yourself.

Addressing bullying by standing up to it, isn't necessarily the right way, but in some cases it is probably the pragmatic way. Obviously, not in all cases and when it reaches the point where a child is so unhappy/depressed as to contemplate self harm, then I think that everyone from the bully, to the housemaster, to the friends who didn't intervene, all share some of the blame.

As for the wet towels, they did hurt, but I think there will be few males on here who have never done it to others - usually it was horse-play.

[Mid A 15]

so how do we as a group as well as society resolve bullying?

I reckon it is an impossible task to resolve bullying completely. However there are certain steps that might help:

1. My hobby horse. Stop the culture of denial prevalent in so many institutions especially schools.

2. Perhaps following on from 1. Greater vigilance from those in authority in monitoring what goes on amongst the charges in their care. My wife works in a school and just by discreetly watching and listening she can often anticipate trouble on the playground and who is causing it. The same principle can be applied throughout schools and other institutions.

3. The hardest thing of all. Remove the social stigma from "grassing".

[Katharine]

so how do we as a group as well as society resolve bullying?

I reckon it is an impossible task to resolve bullying completely. However there are certain steps that might help:

1. My hobby horse. Stop the culture of denial prevalent in so many institutions especially schools.

2. Perhaps following on from 1. Greater vigilance from those in authority in monitoring what goes on amongst the charges in their care. My wife works in a school and just by discreetly watching and listening she can often anticipate trouble on the playground and who is causing it. The same principle can be applied throughout schools and other institutions.

3. The hardest thing of all. Remove the social stigma from "grassing".

A lot of good sense here, if only it could come true!

[Jude]

Speaking as a parent myself your difficulties with your son have nothing to do with bullying in my opinion but everything to do with boundaries.

Your son is now an adult so the boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable behaviour in the home are different than for a child.

Whatever your (general your not just Jude your) views on the rights and wrongs of it cannabis is an illegal drug. You (Jude) are therefore completely within your rights to prohibit or restrict your son's use of it in YOUR HOME. Equally you are within your rights not to have your drive used as a scrapyard on a permanent basis.

My oldest daughter has returned home after some years away and the transition has sometimes been difficult for all of us. She has been used to pleasing herself in her own place which does not always suit a family routine. We have sat down and agreed some (flexible when necessary) ground rules and touchwood things now work reasonably well.

Thank you for your words - I feel less of a bully now - I have reflected on it all afternoon, I obviously do not have enough to do if one tantrum can affect me so much -

It has hit me this afternoon that bullying comes in So many forms - mainly it can't be called bullying i guess, just random acts of unpleasantness, but that these acts gradually build up and up until you can no longer cope with them. This I guess is part of the parent /child growing up thing - Today he was teh straw that broke this camels back, I have nothing to take back as I only said about 12 words, and none were inflammitory - but when he was being bullied it was because of some child being nasty about me - so where did the flip come? When did He start being nasty to me and not actually defending his mother? Parent/child bonds are so precious and so easily broken.....

So you that are still at CH, and are thinking how wonderful it will to be back home -remember to give you mother or father or if you have both a really meaningful hug - for one day they might not be there and you will wish that you had re-lived your time with them again.

Live and let live, and affirm your right in doing all that you can to be honest and truthful to yourself, for without it you are lost.

[Jude]

so how do we as a group as well as society resolve bullying?

I reckon it is an impossible task to resolve bullying completely. However there are certain steps that might help:

1. My hobby horse. Stop the culture of denial prevalent in so many institutions especially schools.

2. Perhaps following on from 1. Greater vigilance from those in authority in monitoring what goes on amongst the charges in their care. My wife works in a school and just by discreetly watching and listening she can often anticipate trouble on the playground and who is causing it. The same principle can be applied throughout schools and other institutions.

3. The hardest thing of all. Remove the social stigma from "grassing".

A lot of good sense here, if only it could come true!

Good heavens - how would Parliament survive? we wouldn't have a government!!

[Fru T. Bunn]

being a recent spawn of the ch system, i witnessed large changes in bullying over my 7 years at ch.

on my squits ('97) it was definitely there and i didn't get much of it as i chose to keep my mouth shut and do what i was told. there were massive hierarchies at this point (something the school has tried to rid itself of) and for me it was a good thing as i respected the bigger kids and i got respect in return. the ones who did the opposite got targeted in most cases.

on my deps (i was house captain) it was massively different. the amount of bullying has definitely gone down and the hierarchy is all but gone too. it may sound good but it isn't all that. because the hierarchy and physicality has gone (and the fact that all-through boys' houses were introduced), the lack of respect between the years has risen more every year. at one stage i even witnessed the ridiculous situation of a 2nd former picking on a grecian (no joke). even when i was house captain i felt like hitting some of them and if i wasn't house captain i probably would've.

as for violence - it doesn't solve everything but i think saying it solves nothing isn't completely accurate. in some cases i've seen rudeness thwarted with a whack and it's sorted the situation out. however i haven't seen much of that since my juniors, probably cos every year the new kids seemed to get smaller and smaller for some reason (im pretty sure it wasn't me getting bigger and bigger ).

[Rod Stuart]

I have a feeling that what you say is just an illusion.
Forty years ago I have similar memories of bullying getting less as we went through the school, and being nearly non existent when we left. I have a feeling we just didn't notice any more!

[Fru T. Bunn]

yeah it's quite possible it's an illusion to some extent but as the rules have got a lot stricter and cards/suspensions are now handed out willy nilly, both forms of bullying have decreased from when i started.

[Jude]

welcome to the Forum Fru T Bunn

Sadly in everyting we do, and everywhere we go there is bullying - we cannot abolish it, for it seeps underground and becomes even harder to trace, if you look into the animal kingdom as a whole you will see bullying - Dolphins bully, Elephants bully (yes really they fight to get rid of a youngster, or to see if they are welcome addition to the group / pod/ etc)

I'm very glad you were not bullied per se - but perhaps there was a reason that it passed you over - perhaps you blended in so as not to be seen? Congratulations for being Head of House, and restraining yourself from lashing out at someone who you felt had done wrong.