Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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kerrensimmonds
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Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:49 pm

Found this inexpensive little item on eBay :-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Large-silver-Geor ... dZViewItem

Have been in communication with the vendor who doesn't know anything about its provenance (he says he's an 'antique dealer' - shouldn't that be 'antiques'?). Some of his history is a bit muddled - but although I well remember polishing cups exactly like it (pink powder-paste-black fingers), this one shows no sign of engraving. So it can't have been an annual prize for anything.... but what would it have been? Perhaps we would know more if it had its plinth......

Ideas on a postcard, please!
Kerren Simmonds
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by Jo » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:19 pm

It's not a chalice, is it?
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:42 pm

Don't think so. Chalice handles would not go above the rim (you'd knock the communicant's nose!). I'm sure it's exactly the same as some of the annual prizes which we had to polish before handing them back - so that they could be engraved with the name or House of the next year's winner - and handed out at Prize Giving.
There must surely have been a similar system at Horsham?

Interestingly, other Georgian silver on eBay is nothing like this price.....
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by Katharine » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:30 pm

Very intriguing, Kerren. He has given the school a good write up. He calls it a trophy cup but why is it gilded (?) on the inside? I don't remember polishing any like that! (Mind you I don't think any of ours were as old!)
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by J.R. » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:06 pm

From the photograph, it certainly looks like a trophy cup.

Even with the CH provenance, I think it's over-priced ! £800 would seem its money to me.
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by MKM » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:39 pm

Could it be a loving cup?
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:58 pm

Don't think so....

http://www.basketmakersco.org/lovingcup.htm

a) no sign of a lid
b) has those big prominent handles which might make drinking difficult
c) also probably not ornate enough

But thinking about City Livery companies (thanks Mary!) and similar. I'm now wondering if it was at some point part of the Foundation's 'treasures' - wasn't there at some time a lot of silver on display in e.g. 26 Great Tower Street?

Alternatively I did wonder if it had been presented TO someone, and whether the record of the presentation might have been on a brass plate on the plinth (which is now missing, presumably). The vendor is in East Dean - which is a stone's throw from Alfriston. Curious?
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by sejintenej » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:10 pm

Katharine wrote:Very intriguing, Kerren. He has given the school a good write up. He calls it a trophy cup but why is it gilded (?) on the inside? I don't remember polishing any like that! (Mind you I don't think any of ours were as old!)
I don't know whether the card is part of the lot or if he has got it from elsewhere. It says:

The motto says: Honour all men, love the brotherhood, fear god honor the king

This does not sound like normal CH to me - especially the reference to a brotherhood. I wonder if there is some Guild of Masonry for Old Blues.

As for the cup being George III it would not have been entrusted to the boys but more likely kept in the school vaults.
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:19 pm

Sorry David but the motto is correct. A direct quotation from 1 Peter 2 (I think...) though we have had discussion on this on the Forum before, and Horsham 'boys' did not know the fourth phrase, though it was recognised by Hertford 'girls'.
To be honest, my gut guess is that this might be something which Christ's Hospital itself presented to Miss West when she retired in 1972, possibly on a plinth with a brass plaque recording the matter.
I have e mailed her brother to see if he can cast any light on the situation, but no reply yet.
Whatever, the price is astronomical! Once he learned of my interest, the vendor has been e mailing me offering to 'do a deal' on a slightly lower price.. I have not responded.
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by DavebytheSea » Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:17 pm

It lis almost certainly a trophy cup.

In my day, each house displayed the various cups and shields for sporting and academic achievements in the dayroom. (In Middleton A and, I daresay in other houses, they were placed in a line on top of the lockers and were viewed with a great deal of pride. I am fairly sure that some were worth substantially more than others depending on the generosity and means of the owner. It is stated that this example is George III (the hall-markings are separately photographed so I assume this is correct) and it may well be that this coupled with its size is what gives it its value. It is just possible that the hall-markings would indicate its origin and an outside chance that original records of sale from the manucturer might still be extant. Some detective work is needed!
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by MKM » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:21 pm

kerrensimmonds wrote:Don't think so....

http://www.basketmakersco.org/lovingcup.htm

a) no sign of a lid
b) has those big prominent handles which might make drinking difficult
c) also probably not ornate enough
These are good points, though I don't think loving cups are always ornate, or with lids, (see
http://www.simonbond.me.uk/photos/cugdi ... G_3539.JPG).

But I agree that the handles and the square base look wrong for a loving cup. Perhaps we should believe the vendor (who says it's a trophy) even if he can't spell.
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by J.R. » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:40 pm

Why doesn't some-one from the forum contact the vendor, explain our vested interest and see what he/she knows about the cup; where he/she got it from, and ask if, for education purposed, he/she can supply a good copy of the hall mark ?

One a cop - always a cop !

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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:17 pm

I have been in touch with the vendor...before starting this thread. No further comment, m'lud....
Kerren Simmonds
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by J.R. » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:33 pm

Many thanks, M'lady.

Then I suggest, if we have the hall mark, that someone contact the original maker !

Q.E.D. ?
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:49 pm

Ermmmm Not easy. Date is 1805....
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