Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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englishangel
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by englishangel » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:23 pm

sejintenej wrote:
Katharine wrote:Very intriguing, Kerren. He has given the school a good write up. He calls it a trophy cup but why is it gilded (?) on the inside? I don't remember polishing any like that! (Mind you I don't think any of ours were as old!)
I don't know whether the card is part of the lot or if he has got it from elsewhere. It says:

The motto says: Honour all men, love the brotherhood, fear god honor the king

This does not sound like normal CH to me - especially the reference to a brotherhood. I wonder if there is some Guild of Masonry for Old Blues.

As for the cup being George III it would not have been entrusted to the boys but more likely kept in the school vaults.
We certainly knew "love the brotherhood" and the Wikipedia page (I know, I know, it is not gospel) has it as the motto.
"If a man speaks, and there isn't a woman to hear him, is he still wrong?"

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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by Katharine » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:28 pm

Just checked and so far nobody has bid for it. I doubt if the dealer can be persuaded to give it to the school where it obviously belongs! :lol: :lol:
Katharine Dobson (Hills) 6.14, 1959 - 1965
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by J.R. » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:32 pm

kerrensimmonds wrote:Ermmmm Not easy. Date is 1805....
If someone is prepared to supply me with the original maker from the HM, I'm sure Jan and I can do some digging.

Jan's a silver enthusiast and my ex-profession would help.

I love a good dig, though prefably NOT in the garden !

You'd be surprised how many old records have been retained.
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:14 pm

John....the vendor's description says -

Solid silver GEORGE 111 Twin handled solid silver Trophy cup It is fully hallmarked for 1805 london.maker JOHN EMES ,IT measures 10 inches in height and is a superb.Its weight is 28 troy ozs . In side has heavy gold guiding

(Yes, Mary, not the most literate antiques dealer in the world!)

One of the photos shows the hallmarkings quite clearly...

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the 'history' of this item would be on the wooden plinth on which it would have stood. That plinth would have had a small brass plaque at the front....... I wonder what happened to it?
Kerren Simmonds
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by J.R. » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:18 pm

I'll get 'Erself on the basic investigation later this evening.
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:09 pm

Almost certain now that this WAS something presented to Miss West. The vendor has now confirmed to me that he bought it at auction at Gorringes in Lewes - the same auction house (I learned today from her family) which took the valuable stuff from Miss West's bungalow when she moved to the Nursing Home and the bungalow was sold. It all happened very quickly - and there was a great deal of CH-related silver and china in which a number of us might have been interested, had we known at the time! But the vendor does not have the plinth - which would confirm once and for all whether or not my supposition is correct! I hope he gets his price.....
Kerren Simmonds
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by Angela Woodford » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:27 pm

I know nothing about antique silver - but this cup is a lovely graceful shape - very very attractive.

What a shame that DR's valuables were scooped up so quickly by Gorringes! I've got a really dim memory of doing my prep in DR's dining room when "babysitting" her elderly mother. Behind me a dark polished antique display cabinet filled with interesting items.

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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by Eruresto » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:01 pm

I looked it up, and it is 1Pe2:17: http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/ ... ion=KJV#17

Interesting that some say 'Honour the Emperor' - when one claim against the early Church is that they refused to do just that?
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by Katharine » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:27 pm

kerrensimmonds wrote:Almost certain now that this WAS something presented to Miss West. ......
But the vendor does not have the plinth - which would confirm once and for all whether or not my supposition is correct! I hope he gets his price.....
That would only give part of its history Kerren - what was it when it was made? If this was presented to her when she left had it been in CH keeping all its life? Does the foundation have a collection of solid silver cups can be presented to anyone really worthy of one? I am intrigued!
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:37 pm

Well, we already know that the Foundation commissioned a job lot of leather covered King James bibles which were dished out to leavers for years after that edition had gone out of fashion.
I therefore suspect that at some time they might have commissioned some trophy cups for special purposes (the distinction about this one is the interior gilding, apart from that, the model is absolutely consistent with e.g. House Singing Competition cups etc. etc. etc.). So I further suspect that when DRW retired they gave her one.... though now it lacks the plinth with a brass plaque which might confirm my suspicion. Otherwise, precious silver such as this is kept securely within the Foundation, so this particular item must have been something which they 'let go' - and the geography and coincidence of the Lewes Auction House all seem to point in one direction.....
Kerren Simmonds
5's and 2's Hertford, 1957-1966

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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by J.R. » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:04 am

Afraid we're not getting very far on this one !
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:00 pm

Well, it did not sell (what a surprise, at that price!).
I gave information to the seller about my suspicions concering its provenance (and the coincidences of the Auction House in Lewes) but he chose not to amend / update his listing in any way. Wonder if he might have sold if he had suggested a 'real' Christ's Hospital connection - also wonder what he will do with it now?
Kerren Simmonds
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by MKM » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:02 am

Mary
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:15 am

I've got seven or eight of these (tho not this model). They must have a generic name - they are souveniry things. My first (and most expensive) was a small white china pig with the school crest on its back. I couldn't resist it. My most recent was a miniature replica 'jigsaw' jug, with the school crest on the front and a little rhyme about drink on the back. Also irresistible...
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Re: Any ideas about what this might be/have been?

Post by kerrensimmonds » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:21 pm

Would you believe it!?
The vendor has re-listed this, at the same price, but without any correction to the 'history' of CH or without including any reference to the provenance which I suggested.
Is the vendor an eejit, or what......?!
Kerren Simmonds
5's and 2's Hertford, 1957-1966

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