Day Pupils.

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ailurophile
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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by ailurophile » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:57 am

I have to wonder if the 'Powers-That-Be' have REALLY thought this one through !
I guess the proof will be in the pudding! The Governors might have decided to make a number of full fee day places available, but they've yet to find families who are willing to fill them.

What is the competition like for independent schools in the catchment area? Does demand outstrip supply? In the current economic climate there has already been a decrease in demand for private education, and those parents who can still afford it will presumably be looking for the best deal in terms of scholarships, class sizes, facilities etc.

The message that has come from CH so far seems to be "We need more money to shore up our desperate financial situation, and if we don't get it we may have to close. So we propose to increase class sizes in order that you can cough up large sums to send your children for 13 hours a day (plus Saturdays) to a school where they will be in a tiny minority and will be treated exactly like the boarders but without benefitting from the advantages of actually boarding."

Maybe I'm being cynical, but as a marketing strategy this doesn't seem to have huge appeal...

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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by Vonny » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:04 pm

wurzel wrote:
J.R. wrote:
NEILL THE NOTORIOUS wrote: There is one bit, which raised a cynical eyebrow in me -------- Full Fee Pupils are described as "Nothing new -- -- they were introduced in 1986 "

My thoughts exactly !
I left in 89 and don't remember that happening.

The only day pupil I remember from that time was Mr Bakers daughter (Amanda?). Her mum used to come & pick her up after prep - I particularly remember this because I often used to keep the juniors in prep longer if they mucked about :shock: And I remember her mum waiting outside for her to come out :lol: Even the likes of Mr Silletts daughters used to board.
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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by stpandp » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:42 pm

ailurophile wrote:
I have to wonder if the 'Powers-That-Be' have REALLY thought this one through !


What is the competition like for independent schools in the catchment area? Does demand outstrip supply? In the current economic climate there has already been a decrease in demand for private education, and those parents who can still afford it will presumably be looking for the best deal in terms of scholarships, class sizes, facilities etc.

Maybe I'm being cynical, but as a marketing strategy this doesn't seem to have huge appeal...
I think the situation might be even worse - there are a lot of good state schools in the immdiate vicinity, both at secondary and 6th form, so the places may well be even more difficult to fill

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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by wurzel » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:14 am


The only day pupil I remember from that time was Mr Bakers daughter (Amanda?). Her mum used to come & pick her up after prep - I particularly remember this because I often used to keep the juniors in prep longer if they mucked about :shock: And I remember her mum waiting outside for her to come out :lol: Even the likes of Mr Silletts daughters used to board.
Sidonia Porteus used to sleep at home on East Gun copse and so did Tania Sillett and Kate Jeffers in the year before the merger when they were the only 3 girls in the school. The Endacotts were our neighbours in Itchingfield and both Tom and Pip boarded. I believe when Kate Sillett started in the merger year all the girls were given houses and boarded. In LHA/B there were boys from Southwater, Tower Hill and the Needles Estate i Horsham and all boarded.

In terms of competition from local schools Tambridge is not brilliant but Weald in Billingshurst is getting better and Colliers is now a good 6th Form college. Independants there are loads - all the ones we used to play at Rugby are still going strong Cranleigh, Arundel, RGS Guildford etc and for the Girls there is Farlington just down the road

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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by cj » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:16 pm

ailurophile wrote:
I have to wonder if the 'Powers-That-Be' have REALLY thought this one through !
I guess the proof will be in the pudding! The Governors might have decided to make a number of full fee day places available, but they've yet to find families who are willing to fill them.

What is the competition like for independent schools in the catchment area? Does demand outstrip supply? In the current economic climate there has already been a decrease in demand for private education, and those parents who can still afford it will presumably be looking for the best deal in terms of scholarships, class sizes, facilities etc.

The message that has come from CH so far seems to be "We need more money to shore up our desperate financial situation, and if we don't get it we may have to close. So we propose to increase class sizes in order that you can cough up large sums to send your children for 13 hours a day (plus Saturdays) to a school where they will be in a tiny minority and will be treated exactly like the boarders but without benefitting from the advantages of actually boarding."

Maybe I'm being cynical, but as a marketing strategy this doesn't seem to have huge appeal...
That particularly make me wonder about this new proposal. Firstly, if you could afford full-fees for a private school as a day pupil (or boarder for that matter), why choose CH? Secondly, why go to a school where there are only a handful known to be there for the dosh and be the odd b*gger out?
wurzel wrote:A quick comment on those times - when i started at CH aged 11 I found with waking up at 7 and 9:15 lights out i was still tired after a hard day. How on earth can an 11 year old concentrate all day if they are not going to get home until 10pm (bed 10:30 earliest), we would get up at 7:15am they will have to be 30 mins before that i would guess.

I will still put my son forward as a boarding pupil but even if he could sleep at my mothers in Horsham I would not subject him to that timetable aged 11 it would kill him
Absolutely agree with you, wurzel, about the daily schedule for a day-pupil. This sort of timetable is only just manageable sleeping on site. Hard enough at 18 but madness thinking juniors could cope with that sort of day!
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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by Richard Ruck » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:38 am

More info on the official website :

http://www.christs-hospital.org.uk/adm- ... places.php
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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by J.R. » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:04 am

I'm still interested to see how The School will set times for these pupils to be 'On Campus', if you'll excuse the Amercanism.

I still reckon it'll only be feasible for pupils residing in or around the Horsham area.
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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by ailurophile » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:39 pm

There's a curious error in the official announcement!
From 2010, for the first time in the School's 450 year history, Christ's Hospital is changing its tradition and opening its door to a limited number of Direct Entry Day Places. Direct Entry places are open to parents who can pay the full-fee throughout the period of their child's education at the School. Full-fee places are not competitive but are academically selective.

These full boarding places will be available for entry at:-

•Age 11 (Year 7)
•Age 13 (Year 9)
•Age 16 (Year 12)
I'm also interested to note that a limited number of academic scholarships will be available to these pupils; doesn't that rather defeat the point of trying to attract more full fee payers in order to increase revenue?

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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by jtaylor » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:12 pm

I think there's two types of places available - Direct Entry, which are simply full-fee-paying boarding places - and then the potential for more places which are non-boarding day-places.
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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by ailurophile » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:31 am

I think there's two types of places available - Direct Entry, which are simply full-fee-paying boarding places - and then the potential for more places which are non-boarding day-places.
Perfectly correct, and the School make this clear on their website where separate links are available on the 'How to Apply' page to 'Direct Entry Boarding' and 'Direct Entry Day Places'. The wording I have pasted above is copied from the latter! This is clearly just a careless error, but it could be confusing to any prospective parent browsing the site, and is not likely to inspire confidence that CH have thought the issue of new day places through very thoroughly!

Something else which has caught my eye is the fees. For direct entry day pupils the full fees for 2010-2011 are shown as £17000 for years 9-13 (LE to Grecians), but £13500 for years 7-8 (second and third form). However, the £3500 differential does not appear to apply to direct entry boarding places, where the fees are indicated as £24000 irrespective of school year. Won't prospective parents of Year 7-8 direct entry boarders expect their fees to be lower, in line with those of day pupils?

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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by wurzel » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:31 pm

ailurophile wrote: Something else which has caught my eye is the fees. For direct entry day pupils the full fees for 2010-2011 are shown as £17000 for years 9-13 (LE to Grecians), but £13500 for years 7-8 (second and third form). However, the £3500 differential does not appear to apply to direct entry boarding places, where the fees are indicated as £24000 irrespective of school year. Won't prospective parents of Year 7-8 direct entry boarders expect their fees to be lower, in line with those of day pupils?
Nearly the same as


Cranleigh School Boarding Fees £8,827, payable in advance
Cranleigh School Day Fees £7,195, payable in advance

Worth

Years 9 to 13

Day £6,113
Boarding £8,252
Being a boarder enables students to make the most of the school’s facilities, many of which are open in the evenings. Our flexible weekend policy allows students either to go home after classes or sporting fixtures on a Saturday or to remain in school where a number of activities are offered. There is a thriving activity programme in place on Sundays and pupils are able to take part in a variety of pursuits from paintballing to quad-biking.

Ardingly

Day £6150 (£6305 6th form)
Boarding £8200 (£8405 6th form)
Boarding at Ardingly College

With almost half the boarders here each weekend, there is always lots going on around the school. Activities are organised for Saturday morning and there is a full programme of sport for all Ardingly boarding school students each Saturday afternoon. Sundays are a relaxed time at Ardingly, and students can have a ‘sleep in’ if they wish before they tuck into the ‘Big Brunch’. After Brunch, there is a programme of trips and events designed to give our boarders a taste of what London and the surrounding areas in Sussex have to offer. Boarders may, of course, go out on leave with local families or relatives any weekend they wish, as long as they have permission from their parents and from their Housemaster or Housemistress.

So they will have to provide the same level of provision/accommodation to compete

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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by cj » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:27 pm

wurzel wrote:Boarders may, of course, go out on leave with local families or relatives any weekend they wish, as long as they have permission from their parents and from their Housemaster or Housemistress.
Were we allowed to go out at weekends when it wasn't a leave day?
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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by NEILL THE NOTORIOUS » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:29 pm

Looking through all this latest information ------- how "Academically Selective" will it be for a "Full Fee Payer" ?
Am I a cynic, when I ask if it will be as difficult as it was when we got into CH ?

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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by YadaYada » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:36 am

I think CH will be shooting themselves in the foot if they lower the academic entry requirements. Higher class sizes and lower academic ability will have a knock on effect on results which will make the school less attractive to prospective parents. Whilst for now it might be only a few, and the results won't be in for 5 or 6 years, I think it would be a huge mistake BUT it is very hard to see where these day pupils are going to come from, especially for this year's intake.

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Re: Day Pupils.

Post by ailurophile » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:56 am

Wurzel wrote:
ailurophile wrote:
Something else which has caught my eye is the fees. For direct entry day pupils the full fees for 2010-2011 are shown as £17000 for years 9-13 (LE to Grecians), but £13500 for years 7-8 (second and third form). However, the £3500 differential does not appear to apply to direct entry boarding places, where the fees are indicated as £24000 irrespective of school year. Won't prospective parents of Year 7-8 direct entry boarders expect their fees to be lower, in line with those of day pupils?

Nearly the same as


Cranleigh School Boarding Fees £8,827, payable in advance
Cranleigh School Day Fees £7,195, payable in advance

Worth

Years 9 to 13

Day £6,113
Boarding £8,252
Being a boarder enables students to make the most of the school’s facilities, many of which are open in the evenings. Our flexible weekend policy allows students either to go home after classes or sporting fixtures on a Saturday or to remain in school where a number of activities are offered. There is a thriving activity programme in place on Sundays and pupils are able to take part in a variety of pursuits from paintballing to quad-biking.

Ardingly

Day £6150 (£6305 6th form)
Boarding £8200 (£8405 6th form)
Boarding at Ardingly College

With almost half the boarders here each weekend, there is always lots going on around the school. Activities are organised for Saturday morning and there is a full programme of sport for all Ardingly boarding school students each Saturday afternoon. Sundays are a relaxed time at Ardingly, and students can have a ‘sleep in’ if they wish before they tuck into the ‘Big Brunch’. After Brunch, there is a programme of trips and events designed to give our boarders a taste of what London and the surrounding areas in Sussex have to offer. Boarders may, of course, go out on leave with local families or relatives any weekend they wish, as long as they have permission from their parents and from their Housemaster or Housemistress.

So they will have to provide the same level of provision/accommodation to compete
While the fees at other local independent day/ boarding schools are broadly similar, it is worth noting that these schools take full boarders only from the age of 13+. Worth appears to be the exception, and there the fees for boarders in academic years 7-8 are lower - £7209 per term as against the £8252 you quote here. So surely if CH is trying to attract full fee boarding pupils at age 11 they will need to take this into consideration, as they appear to have done when setting day fees. I also note that all the competing independent schools in the area appear to offer the IB, so again to attract sixth form pupils CH might find that they need to offer more options than at present.

You are quite right too Wurzel that CH will need to up the ante in terms of extra curricular provision and facilities if they are going to compete for full fee paying pupils. Paintballing and quad biking? - our children don't even have use of the changing rooms in the sports centre!!

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