Kissing Practice

[J.R.]

... and all I was saying is, that no matter what did happen or did not happen at Hertford, the advance in years has bought a massive change to behaviour in society.

Maybe one consideration used in moving the Girls from Hertford to Horsham.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

"When Gorse is out of bloom-- kissing is out of fashion"

I am glad to say that the Gorse, on our adjacent Heath -- is in splendour !

[fra828]

Way back in my previous reminiscences, Spoonbill, I do remember a girl in our Junior House proposing an erotic encounter with another. I overheard them in the cloakroom!

But, at the time, being only eleven years old, I wasn't quite sure what was meant!

There was a terrible occasion of a girl throwing herself out of a window for the unreciprocated love of another girl . Nothing was said, nothing was done, nothing was understood or talked about.

Normal affection and demonstrativeness - it would not have been tolerated. Kissing practice? Never!

DR West would never have tolerated such experimential behaviour for "educational or self developmental purposes" even if we'd been so abandoned. And she would have known.

Fondness, playfulness, anticipation of sexuality, loving friendships... non-existent! Forbidden!

One evening in the dorm, 2 girls said in a loud voice that they would like to snuggle up in bed again with each other. A slightly more senior girl stepped in and said 'that is disgusting!' and looked so horrified that I don't this pair ever dared risk it again especially in an open dorm. We had seen them together after lights-out on a previous occasion and a 3rd girl also! But it was all so innocent and they were giggling together about school-girlish things. Kissing? No, I would say definitly not. Hugging? Well it was a comfort thing, and would never have been accepted if done openly. After all, as you so well said, Angela, normal affection was just not tolerated at Hertford.

[fra828]

Way back in my previous reminiscences, Spoonbill, I do remember a girl in our Junior House proposing an erotic encounter with another. I overheard them in the cloakroom!

But, at the time, being only eleven years old, I wasn't quite sure what was meant!

There was a terrible occasion of a girl throwing herself out of a window for the unreciprocated love of another girl . Nothing was said, nothing was done, nothing was understood or talked about.

Normal affection and demonstrativeness - it would not have been tolerated. Kissing practice? Never!

DR West would never have tolerated such experimential behaviour for "educational or self developmental purposes" even if we'd been so abandoned. And she would have known.

Fondness, playfulness, anticipation of sexuality, loving friendships... non-existent! Forbidden!

I can remember an awful, (near-fatal) incident Angela, wonder if it was the same one, science block window? Everything was so hushed up in that place, that you were never sure it was a rumour or actually true. One evening in the dorm, 2 girls said in a loud voice that they would like to snuggle up in bed again ! with each other. A slightly more senior girl stepped in and said 'that is disgusting!' and looked so horrified that I don't this pair ever dared risk it again especially in an open dorm, even tho nothing untoward was going on. We had seen them together after lights-out on a previous occasion and a 3rd girl also! But it was all so innocent and they were giggling together about school-girlish things. Kissing? No, I would say definitly not. Hugging? Well it was a comfort thing, and would never have been accepted if done openly. After all, as you so well said, Angela, normal affection was just not tolerated at Hertford.

[Ajarn Philip]

Spoonbill, you rascal, please tell me who you are, pleasepleaseplease. I promise not to tell a soul, cross my heart and hope to live a long and happy life (no more tempting fate for me...).

[efsis]

Well as CH was rife with boy/boy relationships in the seventies I presume the same was happening with the girls!

[Kim2s70-77]

If this was the case, I completely missed it! We were in a shared dormitory with 16 others for the first three years and in pairs in thinly-walled cubicles subsequently. There was little to no privacy anywhere and one's time was completely accounted for - I remember no free downtime. I honestly don't think (homo)sexual interactions were a part of the general frame of reference. We really were VERY repressed. The whole atmosphere discouraged anything that pushed the envelope in any way.
In my last couple of years, I had an inappropriate relationship with a male teacher. At the time, I believed we were equals. As an adult, I am appalled. When this came to the attention of the school - I was hauled to the Headmistresses' house and subjected to HOURS of humiliation about being "ruined goods" and "who would want to marry me now" etc. This was from her mother, as well as herself. The teacher in question received a slap on the wrist, whereas I was confined to the Infirmary and my ability to sit my A levels and complete my last few weeks at the school were in considerable doubt. To add insult to injury, the two prizes that I was expected to be awarded ( including The Wandsey cup - for Best All-around Sportsman - which I had coveted for 7 years!)were withdrawn and not awarded. After seven years at the school, Head of House etc- I left in a cloud of shame. Talk about blaming the victim! Here in the US, 17 year old girls receive massive financial settlements and their lecherous teachers serve lengthy jail terms, and lifetimes on sexual offender registries. Good old CH!!

[efsis]

I would have thought that at the age of seventeen you knew what you were doing?

[Angela Woodford]

efsis, until I'd left school at 18, I'd gained no social skills, never been out with a boy in any sort of romantic way, never even held hands! Know what we were doing at 17? How could we learn?

[englishangel]

Here in the UK now too Kim.

In fact if you were of a mind you could probably still sue!

In fact this is very worrying as you may not have been the youngest he was inappropriate with and he was allowed to carry on.

[sejintenej]

efsis, until I'd left school at 18, I'd gained no social skills, never been out with a boy in any sort of romantic way, never even held hands! Know what we were doing at 17? How could we learn?

Efsis; you will remember what Horsham was like in our days; pretty repressed (to understate). You will recall also the absolute ban on being anywhere near the women in the kitchens (though I understand that some boys did get away with "that sort of thing"). I remember after the only school dance I was allowed to escort my "date" back to her lodgings but we had to hurry to get there because I had to back within a timed number of minutes.The girls were even more controlled so I can well believe Angela and Kim; a few boys got those lechers from Doc Matthews - the rest of us went totally ignorant though they had taught me how to deliver a baby!.

[Chrissie Boy]

Well as CH was rife with boy/boy relationships in the seventies I presume the same was happening with the girls!

As I recall it, boy/boy relationships were exceptionally rare in the 70s at CH. In fact there was a marked climate of hostility towards homosexuality amongst the boys. Those (very) few lads who found themselves incapable of keeping their gay libidos under wraps were almost universally derided, being seen either as weirdos or as ludicrous figures of fun. There were only two known boy/boy "relationships" during my seven years at school; the tiny handful of other gay pupils were merely marauders, who got themselves into trouble for attempting to force themselves on other lads.

Gay activity was so incredibly rare at CH that when the cat got let out of the bag, everyone in the school knew about it.

[sejintenej]

Well as CH was rife with boy/boy relationships in the seventies I presume the same was happening with the girls!

As I recall it, boy/boy relationships were exceptionally rare in the 70s at CH. In fact there was a marked climate of hostility towards homosexuality amongst the boys. Those (very) few lads who found themselves incapable of keeping their gay libidos under wraps were almost universally derided, being seen either as weirdos or as ludicrous figures of fun. There were only two known boy/boy "relationships" during my seven years at school; the tiny handful of other gay pupils were merely marauders, who got themselves into trouble for attempting to force themselves on other lads.
Gay activity was so incredibly rare at CH that when the cat got let out of the bag, everyone in the school knew about it.

In the 9 years I was there (1950's into the 1960's) only one boy tried anything with me, I heard allegations about one boy and that was all. As you write; rare.

[jhopgood]

In the 9 years I was there (1950's into the 1960's) only one boy tried anything with me, I heard allegations about one boy and that was all. As you write; rare.

At the end of my first year, a couple of senior members moved house to be replaced by monitors from other houses (names mentioned on another thread), and we got a new senior housemaster, to be replaced by C J Miller.
The strong rumour at the time is that this movement was related to "bed sharing", but I was never interested enough to enquire further.

[fra828]

If this was the case, I completely missed it! We were in a shared dormitory with 16 others for the first three years and in pairs in thinly-walled cubicles subsequently. There was little to no privacy anywhere and one's time was completely accounted for - I remember no free downtime. I honestly don't think (homo)sexual interactions were a part of the general frame of reference. We really were VERY repressed. The whole atmosphere discouraged anything that pushed the envelope in any way.
In my last couple of years, I had an inappropriate relationship with a male teacher. At the time, I believed we were equals. As an adult, I am appalled. When this came to the attention of the school - I was hauled to the Headmistresses' house and subjected to HOURS of humiliation about being "ruined goods" and "who would want to marry me now" etc. This was from her mother, as well as herself. The teacher in question received a slap on the wrist, whereas I was confined to the Infirmary and my ability to sit my A levels and complete my last few weeks at the school were in considerable doubt. To add insult to injury, the two prizes that I was expected to be awarded ( including The Wandsey cup - for Best All-around Sportsman - which I had coveted for 7 years!)were withdrawn and not awarded. After seven years at the school, Head of House etc- I left in a cloud of shame. Talk about blaming the victim! Here in the US, 17 year old girls receive massive financial settlements and their lecherous teachers serve lengthy jail terms, and lifetimes on sexual offender registries. Good old CH!!

How awful to go thru that experience Kim, he was the adult after all and unbelievable he wasn't suspended at the VERY least...Male teachers at Hertford?? In the early 70's I can only remember Maths Monty and the lovely caring Mr Watson, both middle-aged 40-50 ish, now you could have a crush on the latter, but relationship??? So am guessing it was someone else, younger?