Non-Church of England OBs

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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Martin
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Non-Church of England OBs

Post by Martin » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:49 pm

Virtually all at CH a few decades ago were Christians and a large majority of the Christians were C of E or Noncomformist. There were some Roman Catholic pupils too and at least two RC masters (Reggie Dean, who taught French and Alastair Mackerras, a teacher of Maths and also Latin! His brother was Sir Charles the conductor). There were also a few Jews, but never more than about two or three at a time. More recently I presume there have also been CH pupils who were Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or of other faiths. (Can a young OB confirm this?)

Of the Jews, the most distinguished I think has been Baroness Deech (a lawyer, head of an Oxford College and best known as chair of a government Bioethical Authority dealing with artificial human fertilisation). She was the guest of honour at the Founder’s Day Dinner a few years ago and gave an excellent speech dealing with government sleaze, when it was particularly rife. However perhaps a close second was the journalist and author Bernard Levin (1928-2004). He was described in ‘The Times’ (after having been employed at that paper) as "the most famous journalist of his day" and was amazingly erudite, witty, versatile, caustic, an excellent critic and also the founder of the ‘disrespectful school of journalism’.

Perhaps someone can write further about Deech and Levin, or recount something of other OB members of these and other minority religions.

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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by michael scuffil » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:48 pm

Bernard Levin summed up his Jewishness by saying: 'I like my bacon crispy, thank you.' In other words he was a Jew by Hitler's definition only.

He was a brilliant journalist in his younger days on the Spectator, and he was one of the mainstays of That Was The Week That Was. But he became a little pompous in the 1980s. His television journeys across the Alps, Up the Rhine and others were not really successful in my view.
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by J.R. » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:56 pm

michael scuffil wrote:Bernard Levin summed up his Jewishness by saying: 'I like my bacon crispy, thank you.' In other words he was a Jew by Hitler's definition only.

He was a brilliant journalist in his younger days on the Spectator, and he was one of the mainstays of That Was The Week That Was. But he became a little pompous in the 1980s. His television journeys across the Alps, Up the Rhine and others were not really successful in my view.

Just to add a little more info, this link will help:-

http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Bernard_Levin
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by Jo » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:20 pm

I don't claim to be a distinguished OB by any measure you would care to mention, but even whilst at CH I was already an atheist. That may not fit the definition of minority religion, and I know atheism tends to be seen by the religious as an absence of something, even a vacuum, but for me it is a positive statement of living my life without a deity in it. I certainly fit the thread title of a Non C of E OB, very definitely.
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by postwarblue » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:00 am

A Jewish boy arrived in Col B at the start of one term in the 50s but was whisked away by his mother the very next day. Don't know why.

I have problems with Baroness Deech's apparent (to me) enthusiasm for children deliberately to be born who can never know who their father was. Strikes me as totally un-Christian.
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by michael scuffil » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:03 am

Jo wrote:I don't claim to be a distinguished OB by any measure you would care to mention, but even whilst at CH I was already an atheist. That may not fit the definition of minority religion, and I know atheism tends to be seen by the religious as an absence of something, even a vacuum, but for me it is a positive statement of living my life without a deity in it. I certainly fit the thread title of a Non C of E OB, very definitely.
Jo's position reflects mine, at least when I was young.

When I arrived, the housemaster asked my parents about religious matters, as was standard. They said I'd been baptized a Catholic (technically speaking, not quite true, as baptism is ecumenical, but in a Catholic church), but that no, I was not to go to a Catholic church in Horsham (my parents were effectively atheists). New boys in those days had a session on Sunday mornings with hosemasters during 'Div Prep', a session which revolved around religion, with a little sex thrown in. We had to learn by heart the prayers etc. recited communally in chapel. These included the Creed. The housemaster (John Page) went through it with us. 'I believe in God... I take it we all do?' I didn't, but I had enough nous to realize it wasn't worth the hassle, and said nothing. Then at some point at house prayers ('Duty') an announcement was made about confirmation classes, and who wanted to take part. This was a total mystery to me. I had never heard of confirmation. But I was almost the only person in the house who hadn't been confirmed by age 16. And then when I became a house captain, I had to read the lessons in chapel. There was a practice session before my week's tour of duty, with the chaplain, Arthur Pullin (the Chain). He broached the topic of my religious beliefs by saying he had the impression they were 'muddled'. This was his way of saying that they weren't his.

I am still not a Christian, though I now regard materialism as an adolescent disorder.
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by marty » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:25 pm

I now follow the teachings of Richard Dawkins. He's my god.
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by J.R. » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:11 pm

marty wrote:I now follow the teachings of Richard Dawkins. He's my god.

...... and we all thought it was Fionna !!
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by Martin » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:11 pm

Although not directly part of this topic, I would like to draw Marty‘s attention to an article that has interesting things to say about Dawkins and it suggests that he may not be worthy of God-like status. It is from a US journal, ‘The Chronicle of Higher Education’, with website: http://chronicle.com/article/Does-Relig ... on/133457/

The following quotation gives the article’s essence, but the whole article is much more nuanced and subtle than this extract. “They complain in the article that the New Atheists [ie Dawkins & Co.] are quick to remind everyone how fundamentalism fuels Al Qaeda but neglect to mention the role of churches in the civil-rights movement. The New Atheists are, according to Atran and Ginges, cherry-picking the horrors. "Science produced a nuclear bomb. Therefore we should throw away science," says Atran, to illustrate the baby- bathwater logic. "Sometimes it can be really noxious, and other times it can be quite helpful.”

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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by michael scuffil » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:29 pm

I agree. Nowhere does Dawkins address the idea of God. He confines himself to attacking believers, and in most cases, forms of belief that most believers do not hold. He wouldn't pass Metaphysics I in a philosophy course (or rather: he might pass it if he bothered to acquaint himself with the arguments).

Not that his biological views are much better.

But we can give him an A+ for social climbing.
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by yamaha » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:43 pm

Perhaps someone can write further about Deech and Levin, or recount something of other OB members of these and other minority religions.
Why?

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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by postwarblue » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:11 pm

Dawkins does the same straw-man thing as most belligerent atheists, imputing beliefs not actually held by people who are theologically Christian (which excludes Creationists at one pole, and Roman Catholics with their Maryolatry and priestly celibacy at the other). One wonders what he is afraid of.
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by J.R. » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:21 am

yamaha wrote:
Perhaps someone can write further about Deech and Levin, or recount something of other OB members of these and other minority religions.
Why?

I certainly cannot recall any pupils of the Jewish faith in my time.

I believe one or two Catholics were transported to Horsham for services.

I think it pretty safe to say that during my time in excess 0f 95% of pupils were C of E.
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by eucsgmrc » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:11 pm

J.R. wrote:I certainly cannot recall any pupils of the Jewish faith in my time.
...
I think it pretty safe to say that during my time in excess 0f 95% of pupils were C of E.
There was at least one Jew in Col A whose time overlapped with yours. (Not me, notwithstanding my surname, but that's another story.) He was not required to attend chapel. I have no idea what other provision was made for him. My memory is unreliable as to others, but I do believe there were some.

That said, 95% is probably about right for C of E.
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Re: Non-Church of England OBs

Post by Jo » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:35 pm

J.R. wrote:
yamaha wrote:
Perhaps someone can write further about Deech and Levin, or recount something of other OB members of these and other minority religions.
Why?

I certainly cannot recall any pupils of the Jewish faith in my time.

I believe one or two Catholics were transported to Horsham for services.

I think it pretty safe to say that during my time in excess 0f 95% of pupils were C of E.
That seems surprisingly high. Were they really all C of E, or just not RC, Jewish, or any other recognised religion? That does not necessarily equate to actually being C of E, which is the point I tried to make in my previous post.
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