CH and the Armed Services

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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Avon
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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by Avon » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:42 pm

I find it deeply comforting that CH produced so few crabs. Quite right too.

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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by Foureyes » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:56 pm

I hope that Avon's contribution was meant as a joke, but, as someone who spent 34 years in the Army and frequently worked with the RAF, I find it in poor taste. For the benefit of those not 'in the know,' "crab" is a term used in the RN and Army to describe RAF - it is sometimes used humorously, but more often not.
For the record, 87 Old Blues died in the RAF in WW2, compared to 59 in the Army and 54 in the RN. Of the 87 RAF, 22 died in heavy bombers in the operations over Germany, which required great courage. The three Donaldson brothers were all in Maine A, all joined the RAF and all three were awarded the DSO in WW2 a unique record. One of the three died in the war (aboard HMS Glorious) and another broke the world air speed record in 1946. Old Blues have included an Air Chief Marshal (Constantine) and numerous senior officers. Another RAF Old Blue died during the Suez war' - one of the very few, possibly the only, RAF casualty during that campaign. There are currently at least half-a-dozen Old Blues in the RAF, two of whom have commanded squadrons and stations with distinction and will undoubtedly rise to the very top.
I hope that Avon will withdraw his comment.
David

Afternote added later: I have now ascertained that the RAF Old Blue who died in the Suez campaign was Fg Officer Urquart-Pullen. He was navigator in a Canberra PR9 which was shot down over Syria. The event was little publicised at the time as it was, in almost every sense, a spy flight over a country with which the UK was not at war.I regret that I know no more about Urquart-Pullen.
Last edited by Foureyes on Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by Katharine » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:07 pm

Thanks for the explanation David, I did not know what he meant.

My father (Mid B) also served in the RAF, when a missionary posting to Borneo fell through because the Japanese had invaded, he signed up as a chaplain, serving in N Africa & Italy

He stayed in the RAFVR until at least 1959.
Katharine Dobson (Hills) 6.14, 1959 - 1965
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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by Mid A 15 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:30 pm

Brigadier Roger Lane ( Mid B c 65-72) is arguably the most distinguished Armed Service OB of my era.

As far as I can surmise he became a victim of Government spin doctors but maintained his personal and professional integrity in difficult circumstances.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... itics.html
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Avon
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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by Avon » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:52 am

Foureyes wrote:I hope that Avon's contribution was meant as a joke, but, as someone who spent 34 years in the Army and frequently worked with the RAF, I find it in poor taste. For the benefit of those not 'in the know,' "crab" is a term used in the RN and Army to describe RAF - it is sometimes used humorously, but more often not.
For the record, 87 Old Blues died in the RAF in WW2, compared to 59 in the Army and 54 in the RN. Of the 87 RAF, 22 died in heavy bombers in the operations over Germany, which required great courage. The three Donaldson brothers were all in Maine A, all joined the RAF and all three were awarded the DSO in WW2 a unique record. One of the three died in the war (aboard HMS Glorious) and another broke the world air speed record in 1946. Old Blues have included an Air Chief Marshal (Constantine) and numerous senior officers. Another RAF Old Blue died during the Suez war' - one of the very few, possibly the only, RAF casualty during that campaign. There are currently at least half-a-dozen Old Blues in the RAF, two of whom have commanded squadrons and stations with distinction and will undoubtedly rise to the very top.
I hope that Avon will withdraw his comment.
David
Only part jest - there's a law somewhere that any internet thread on the armed forces has no legitimacy unless it descends into tri-service rivalry on page one. I just missed it. And I seldom withdraw my comments because I generally meant them in the first place.

Having no historical bent whatsoever (despite the best efforts of Tim Askew), I made the mistake of making a jibe at the present day RAF, interpreted as one at the RAF of ages past. Without prejudice to the dead of WW2 (which CH was lamentably late in honouring properly) cited above, the present day RAF is frankly an embarrassment. Its a bloated and very PC construct that's really struggled with the practicalities of warfighting as opposed to worrying about station-level diversity programmes. As a fish'ead (and wafu to boot- meaning navy flier) I'm less askance than the Army at the classless society in the RAF because the navy is above such things, but share the same view that the RAF is anodyne, tribal and totally lacking focus. RAF support (with the notable exception of Chinook) in Iraq was mixed, in Afghanistan the RAF is being consistently outshone across all aviation (Chinook rule still in force, but half their pilots are ex-RN and Army). It's expensive and not delivering, and more than the other two services, its leadership is political and politicised, and loves infighting.

Naturally their bewinged master race are good guys (navs excluded of course, they are just talking baggage); they just chose the wrong service to fly in.

The fervent hope in my Arm (slightly embittered as we cashed in Harrier and are waiting for new planes and a few boat thingies to fly them off) and the Army seems to be that someone in MoD has a sense of humour and will bin the RAF and merge it into RN and Army just before its 100th birthday.

If that doesn't pull this thread (like this forum) from its 50's nostalgic reverie then nothing will. Discuss.

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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by jhopgood » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:55 am

Mid A 15 wrote:Brigadier Roger Lane ( Mid B c 65-72) is arguably the most distinguished Armed Service OB of my era.
Is that Roger, brother of David?

In which case, he was in Barnes B prior to Mid B, and a very junior contemporary.
Barnes B 25 (59 - 66)

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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by anniexf » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:30 am

Avon wrote:
If that doesn't pull this thread (like this forum) from its 50's nostalgic reverie then nothing will. Discuss.
Why does Avon want to remove any "nostalgic reverie"? Isn't that the main purpose (current Parents' thread excluded) of an old school website?

Avon
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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by Avon » Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:58 pm

Where did I state or imply that I wanted to remove anyone?

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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by anniexf » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:04 pm

Forgive me, it was merely an enquiry, obviously stemming from a misunderstanding on my part.

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Mid A 15
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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by Mid A 15 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:07 pm

anniexf wrote:Forgive me, it was merely an enquiry, obviously stemming from a misunderstanding on my part.
You and me both.

I did not construe the comment as directed at any individual but it certainly struck me as fairly pointed towards the general tone of the forum.
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Mid A 15
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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by Mid A 15 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:10 pm

jhopgood wrote:
Mid A 15 wrote:Brigadier Roger Lane ( Mid B c 65-72) is arguably the most distinguished Armed Service OB of my era.
Is that Roger, brother of David?

In which case, he was in Barnes B prior to Mid B, and a very junior contemporary.
I believe he did have both an older and younger brother (? Rupert) yes. I don't remember (maybe never knew) the name of the older brother.

I also don't remember him as one of the Barnes B lot although he could well have been.

Where's AKAP when you need him? :wink:
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anniexf
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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by anniexf » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:17 pm

Mid A 15 wrote:
anniexf wrote:Forgive me, it was merely an enquiry, obviously stemming from a misunderstanding on my part.
You and me both.

I did not construe the comment as directed at any individual but it certainly struck me as fairly pointed towards the general tone of the forum.
Nor did I take it as directed at any indivual Andy, that's what threw me. I can't understand though why a website that is intended to offer the opportunity to reminisce needs to be changed in the way Avon seemed to be suggesting.

There's a rather funny "crabs" film on tv at the moment which my other half is enjoying; but nostalgia isn't what it used to be ... :D

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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by AKAP » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:06 pm

Roger did have a younger brother (Rupert) and an older brother who's name I can't remember. But Roger wasn't in Barnes B. I will try to get the brain cells activated and try to remember more details.

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DavebytheSea
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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by DavebytheSea » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:43 pm

In the long and distinguished lists above, no mention is made of Rear-Admiral David Bawtree CB DL BSc (Eng) CEng FIMechE FIET FRSA. David retired from the Royal Navy in 1993 from his appointment as Flag Officer and Naval Base Commander Portsmouth, where he was particularly responsible for the repair and maintenance of ships based in the area. His career spanned 38 years in a variety of project management, support and personnel appointments. Since leaving the Navy, he has been a Special Advisor to the Home Office on crisis management and the Chairman of Portsmouth Hospitals NHS Trust. He is involved with education as a governor of three schools, of one of which he is Chairman, and the musical education of children. He is the Chairman of the Trustees of HMS Warrior (1860) and director of the Portsmouth Dockyard heritage area ‘Flagship Portsmouth’. David' association with CH continues and, until recently at least, was regularly to be seen in the school's fives courts.

It is curious that David and General Sir Garry Johnson were almost exact contemporaries in Lt Col. Rider's house - Middleton A together with David (now Lord) Simon a former chairman of BP and a minister in Tony Blair's first government.
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Re: CH and the Armed Services

Post by DavebytheSea » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:50 pm

I should add that, initially, back in 1948 when I was a squit aged 8 in Prep B, relations between myself and Bawtree seem to have been a trifle strained. My 'Housey Alphabet' of February that year and sent home to my parents, went something like: 'A is for Art School where we sometimes work, and B is for Bawtree who's a terrible twerp'.

Later with both of us in Middleton A, we were brought closer by a shared love of music - both of us sang in the Chapel choir - a somewhat discouraged pastime in Arthur Rider's sport-orientated regime which frowned on anything remotely arty.
David Eastburn (Prep B and Mid A 1947-55)

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