Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

Moderator: Moderators

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 279 times
Been thanked: 209 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by richardb » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:34 pm

There are classic devices deployed by abusers which buy silence.

Husband's victim complained to Dobbie who then - according to the evidence - abused her himself.

Husband's victim told her mother who didn't believe her.

One of Karim's victims complained and was told (quite wrongly) her name would go in the papers. Even after raising the issue, she was forced to continue to be taught by Karim.

These things flourished because the school didn't take appropriate action and those abused would have seen that nothing was being done, so why complain ?

If the school had reacted properly and appropriately, then a lot of this could have been avoided.

Avon
Deputy Grecian
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:39 pm
Real Name: Ed Bell
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by Avon » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:44 pm

J.R. wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:17 pm
Maybe C.M.E. Seaman as HM ruled a very tight ship.
I think there’s some truth to this. It implies that there is a strong leadership and vigilance element to safeguarding - and that there was an era of two or so decades at CH where this was demonstrably absent. An independent enquiry should focus on this period and answer such questions. I would include the Bishop Ball element too - this is inadequately explained.

User avatar
jtaylor
Forum Administrator
Posts: 1761
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:32 am
Real Name: Julian Taylor
Location: Wantage, OXON
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 186 times
Contact:

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by jtaylor » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:48 pm

Avon wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:59 pm
There should be an enquiry. This was endemic. During my time at CH:

My history teacher was raping someone.
My chaplain was abusing multiple people, and the link between him and Bishop Ball merits further investigation.
My cricket coach was abusing multiple people.
My French teacher was an out-and-out psychopath, and later at Haileybury went on to abuse another pupil.

All of the above have been convicted.

The governance, pastoral care and competence of the senior leadership needs examination. Not only do we need proof that reoccurrence is unlikely but I think we need an examination of the past. Personally, I want portraits unhung, I want pensions commuted, I want there to be consequence for incompetence. But maybe that’s just me.

I’ve never felt less inclined to feel bound by the Charge.
Have to say I agree with all but the last bit. I dealt with that odious French teacher for my first term, in detention every Wednesday and Saturday for weeks due to his approach. Was not surprised when it turned out he was dodgy, and he had a very nasty vindictive side.

An inquiry/further investigation would certainly be merited - potentially an endemic policy of cover-up, reminiscent of the Church of England, of which Dobbie was of course a member too....

I’ve done a lot of soul searching recently given these revelations, based on my personal experience of Dobbie’s appalling breach of trust, and opportunistic voyeurism as described in the court case - he was the person I went to for emotional support when I needed it most, and he provide none - worse, he used it as opportunity to fulfill his own vicarious turn-ons....hopefully he’s going to get exactly what he’s deserved when sentenced! J
These users thanked the author jtaylor for the post:
Scazza (Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:39 pm)
Rating: 5.88%
Julian Taylor-Gadd
Leigh Hunt 1985-1992
Image
Founder of The Unofficial CH Forum
http://www.grovegeeks.co.uk - IT Support and website design for home, small businesses and charities.

yamaha
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by yamaha » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:54 pm

I have a lot of questions I would like answers to. In respect of Burr, Webb, Karim and Husband I would like to know:

1. Why was each dismissed ? Was it because sexual abuse (in whatever form) was alleged against him ? Were the police involved ? If not, why not ? Was the school asked to provide any references for him by any subsequent prospective employer and, if so, did they say explicitly why he was dismissed ?;
2. Did the reason(s) why each was dismissed relate in any way to the matters to which he has now been convicted ?;
3. Why were none of the cases made the subject of complaint to the police.
Hi Richard, did I understand in a previous thread you wrote that failing to report these events to the police is not considered to be perverting the course of justice?

It seems to me that waving pedophiles on to their next victims should be a very serious crime and that if they were provided with dishonest references, it should be considered equivalent to collusion in or at least facilitation of subsequent crimes.

Even if it is not criminal, would not the apparently willful negligence, in my opinion, of the CH headmasters be considered tortious in suits brought by victims at schools which subsequently employed Dobbie et al, and CH be exposed to liability?

jakew
3rd Former
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:59 pm
Real Name: jake
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by jakew » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:02 pm

Not sure how this works in the education sector, but it's years since I've seen or sent a reference that said anything other than "Mr X worked here between date Y and date Z".

HR departments tend to enforce this policy out of a fear of being on the wrong end of a civil action. In fact, at most places only HR are allowed to send references, to prevent any useful information from being accidentally included.

yamaha
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by yamaha » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:30 pm

Karim was lauded as a school success story after he came to the UK as a Ugandan refugee and thrived with a scholarship.

His fees were even paid by Sir Barnes and, despite leaving the school under a cloud, a glowing reference earned him jobs at Eton College before he worked at Queen's and The Hurlingham Club
Last edited by yamaha on Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jakew
3rd Former
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:59 pm
Real Name: jake
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by jakew » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:37 pm

J.R. wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:17 pm
Reading some of the above posts, I still find it hard to believe that during my 5 and a half years at CH, I never came across child abuse by teachers. I'm not saying it didn't happen. After my later career and coming into contact with one or two people who had those sort of traits, then looking back to all the CH staff, I cannot think of any of them who fitted the category.
I think it's interesting to reflect on what kids do and don't notice. It was fairly well understood that Dobbie was pretty sketchy, for example, but I'd never have guessed that there was a common victim with Husband. Equally I don't think I knew that the relationship between Dobbie and Husband was as close as it was portrayed in court.

And, as alluded to elsewhere, everyone was frightened of Rowley, but mainly because he was a sociopath rather than because he was a paedophile.

In the good old days, of course, it's entirely possible that potential abusers were able to "let off steam" through the application of corporal punishment, and as this became less and less acceptable the perpetrators had to resort to risker behaviours.

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 279 times
Been thanked: 209 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by richardb » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:44 pm

So the paedophile thinks: "we can't beat them so we beast them".

So appropriate.

yamaha
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:27 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by yamaha » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:50 pm

Jake - 'the good old days' - that was certainly true of at least one flagellomaniac master and an older inmate bully both of whom were clearly repressing psychological issues.

Oliver
3rd Former
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:59 am
Real Name: Oliver Underwood
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by Oliver » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:44 pm

… it's my understanding that member-only groups don't tend to get scraped by Google etc. and thus provide a minor level of privacy compared to completely open groups.
Question – What does “scraped” mean here?

User avatar
jtaylor
Forum Administrator
Posts: 1761
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:32 am
Real Name: Julian Taylor
Location: Wantage, OXON
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 186 times
Contact:

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by jtaylor » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:46 pm

Read by google - collected up and indexed.
Julian Taylor-Gadd
Leigh Hunt 1985-1992
Image
Founder of The Unofficial CH Forum
http://www.grovegeeks.co.uk - IT Support and website design for home, small businesses and charities.

rockfreak
Grecian
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:31 pm
Real Name: David Redshaw
Location: Gravesend, Kent
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by rockfreak » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:28 pm

Just recently on another thread someone posted claiming that this sort of abuse goes on just as much at day schools. Really? I can only speak from my own experience but when my three daughters were at their local day schools (variously comprehensive and grammar) over a span of about twelve years there were no scandals of this nature and I haven't heard of any at these schools since they left. Boarding schools are hermetically sealed institutions out there in the countryside with their own cultures. They are a natural target for pervs and sadists as a result. I really thought that this sort of thing had finished after I left in 1960 when I'd seen three masters kicked out for sexual misconduct. In two cases it was junior boys who blew the whistle and told their mothers. Now that gives us a hint, doesn't it. Children of single parents. The older boys who were eighteen or so knew all about it but did nothing. So much for the quaint boarding school idea of monitors who have the difficult job of facing in two directions at once. Who are they supposed to be serving? People are trying to say that Christ's Hospital is a refuge for youngsters who come from less than adequate homes. Well what constitutes an adequate home? No home is entirely perfect. If the unfortunate 15-year-old girl had been living at home would she have ended up being raped, disbelieved, and then assaulted again? Would the hand-wringing apologists for the English boarding school system that are so vocal on this site please tell me what constitutes an adequate home.

Molesworth 2
2nd Former
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:36 pm
Real Name: M
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by Molesworth 2 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:16 pm

Rockfreak- I agree. Prior to my spell at CH I attended a day school. Apart from the odd school trip abroad there were very limited opportunities the teachers would have to spend time alone with single pupils; I can’t think of many occasions in the years I was there where I was alone with a teacher. I don’t remember there being rumours of unacceptable behaviour by the teachers towards pupils, and I never felt uncomfortable with any of them (unlike CH- but that’s a different story).

richardb
Forum Moderator
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 pm
Real Name: Richard Bloomfield
Location: Tyne and Wear
Has thanked: 279 times
Been thanked: 209 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by richardb » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:33 pm

Let's not forget Jeremy Forrest who is the All Sussex champion paedo teacher and eloped with his under age pupil.

He went to France which is rather more romantic than Billingshurst caravan park.

scrub
LE (Little Erasmus)
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:11 pm
Real Name: Tim
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Should the forum be behind a registration wall?

Post by scrub » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:17 am

rockfreak wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:28 pm
Really?
Nope, at least not in my experience.

During my time at CH I spent a year overseas (a long and not very interesting story) where I went to a day school. Well, to be precise, two day schools (a longer and even more uninteresting story).
To be fair, there were a number of sleazy teachers in those schools. A few had slept with students, most were just pervs, but for the most part any actual relations were consensual, albeit inappropriate. That said, they were few and far between and, when compared to what we now know about recent court cases, would barely raise an eyebrow, let alone form the basis of a court case.

Does it happen? Yes.

Does it happen to the same extent? No, not even close in my opinion.

You just need to look at non-boarding school related cases that have made the news (Bennell, Ormond, Higgins, Saville, et al) to see that teaching, in and of itself, is not the common denominator. It's power, influence, and apparent standing in the community that is what all of these offenders have in common. This situation can be exacerbated in a boarding school environment, one which holds dear the idea that a hierarchical system, enforced with tolerated/tacitly endorsed bullying and coercion, is the optimal environment to raise children to the nominal age of adulthood. Especially one that has a complicit senior management team.
Not every teacher in that situation is a Dobbie/Husband/Webb/Karim/Burr/etc, and to be fair, most aren't. However, for the ones that are, the boarding school environment is their perfect habitat.
ThB 89-91, PeA 93-96

Post Reply