What was the food chain?

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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What was the food chain?

Post by richardb » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:38 am

We know that Baker wrote a pile of lies to cover up for Webb. But were they his own lies or would he have the Nuremberg defence that he was acting under orders?

Can anyone shed any light on who actually pulls the strings and tells Headmasters to cover up?

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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by Sweyn Forkbeard » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:12 am

Well the headmaster is effectively the CEO to the school, but normally is answerable to the 'Council' or Trustees in a charity, and again the normal thing would be for the Chair to act as line manager of the HT. The question would then be - did the HT consult with the Chair on any of these matters? If not, then that HT is in trouble surely - especially given the issue with references. If they (as we are talking a period of 40 years here) did consult, then the governance has to be called into question and could be sued if complicit with the references. Has anyone asked the Charity Commissioners what they think? Given the row over Oxfam etc, this ought now to be familiar territory to them. Incidentally, if anyone needs an expert witness on how private schools should be managed I know the ideal person - whose husband went to CH years ago.

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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by marty » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:36 am

The headmaster is the public face of the school but I suspect there are others (namely The Council of Almoners) higher up pulling the real strings.

It's clear that Baker covered up Webb's true reason for leaving the school and we know that Poulton sent Karim on his way with a nice reference despite being aware of his behaviour.

So, is it coincidence that both heads indulged in the same practice or was there pressure from above to hush things up?

The CH museum website states that Governors ran the school up until 1891 and it was then handed to the Council of Almoners

http://www.chmuseum.org.uk/authenticate ... e=b_Browse

It's easy to find out who the current almoners are, and the current iteration was incorporated in 2005 (see below, slightly worrying there is currently an active proposal to strike off).

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/comp ... s-hospital

But what we really need to know is who was on the council in the mid 80s to early 90s when all this ugliness took place...
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by J.R. » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:04 pm

It has been loosly implied on another thread that Baker has shuffled off his mortal coil.

I suggest someone does some deep digging into the named person.

I'm reliably informed that you can't defame the deceased. That might help matters a little !!
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by Mid A 15 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:11 pm

This thread suggests that Derek Baker is deceased.

viewtopic.php?t=4837
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by jtaylor » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:44 pm

J.R. wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:04 pm
I'm reliably informed that you can't defame the deceased. That might help matters a little !!
Indeed - but I would though say that we should be sensitive to surviving family, and not therefore speculate unfairly. I was at CH with Simon Baker, who was I believe Derek's son, a year or two above me - a lovely guy, and an amazing counter-tenor.
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by J.R. » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:47 pm

Full name appears to be Leonard Graham Derek Baker, but 'praps he never used/accepted Leonard Graham.

Brief Google search hasn't helped much. Any other suggestions ? It seems possibly another case of CH burying bad news.

Great Plum's Dad might be able to help if he or Matt read this.
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by Jim Rayner » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:49 pm

marty wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:36 am

It's easy to find out who the current almoners are, and the current iteration was incorporated in 2005 (see below, slightly worrying there is currently an active proposal to strike off).

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/comp ... s-hospital

But what we really need to know is who was on the council in the mid 80s to early 90s when all this ugliness took place...
I've just been looking at the school accounts on the Companies House website and it seems the structure changed on 1 September last year, from which point the Council of Almoners ceased to function.

The arrangements are quite complicated, and it's taken a bit of research, but broadly work like this:

From 1 August 2007 to 31 August 2017

The Council of Almoners (individuals) were directors of a company called The Council of Almoners of Christ's Hospital.
This company was trustee of a Charity called Foundation of Christ's Hospital - the Foundation holds all the investments and endowments and provides income to the school.
The Foundation in turn owned a company called Christ's Hospital School - as the name suggests this company runs the school. It is also a charity. The directors were a sub-committee of the Council of Almoners and called the Governors of Christ's Hospital.

From 1 September 2017

Christ's Hospital School has been renamed as Christ's Hospital. It's directors are now all the individuals making up the Council of Almoners, but now called the Council of Christ's Hospital. The Headmaster and Senior Management Team are employed by the company and but are not directors.
The company, The Council of Christ's Hospital, has been replaced as trustee of the Foundation by the company Christ's Hospital.
So basically, the individuals making up the Council of Almoners are directors of the school, which in turn is the corporate trustee of the Foundation.
There are a couple of other companies controlled by the school - Bluecoat Sports (which is a charitable company) and Christ's Hospital Enterprises Ltd. The Foundation also owns Christal House Contracts Ltd which owns a 3.5 acre solar panel farm and supplies electricity to the school and the National Grid.


I believe that until around 2007 the School and the Foundation were a single body, and that the decision was made to separate them so as to protect the Foundation assets from the risk of any claims or liabilities incurred by the school. In the light of recent events that is even more understandable. It would be interesting to know what was known, and by whom, at that time.

The current directors of the School are listed here (tick the box to get just the current ones - the first name listed, Gregory Andrews is an accountant and the Company Secretary and not a director) https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... 6/officers

The latest accounts for the school are here. Details of the structural reorganisation are one page 6 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... download=0

The latest accounts for the Foundation are here. Until 31 August 2017 the school was controlled by the Foundation (it's now the other way round) so these accounts consolidate the results for both the school and the foundation (it's an accountancy thing, but basically these accounts treat all the separate entities as if they were one single animal). http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Ac ... 31_E_C.pdf
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by richardb » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:53 pm

Excellent work Jim.

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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by richardb » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:56 pm

Mid A 15 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:11 pm
This thread suggests that Derek Baker is deceased.

viewtopic.php?t=4837
An appallingly unheralded death.

He appears to have taught at The Leys school who gave him nearly three pages of their magazine as a tribute.

Sadly he is likely to be an easy scapegoat for the school.
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by J.R. » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:30 pm

richardb wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:56 pm
Mid A 15 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:11 pm
This thread suggests that Derek Baker is deceased.

viewtopic.php?t=4837
An appallingly unheralded death.

He appears to have taught at The Leys school who gave him nearly three pages of their magazine as a tribute.

Sadly he is likely to be an easy scapegoat for the school.

Interestingly Richard, I have just spent some time doing what one of my 'Old Jobs' taught me well, and have been trawling the internet for more background on the said teacher.

I would guess there has been some damage limitation done on some sites, possibly quite recently, to do some judicious (?) eradication of possible finger pointing in the future.

As he was HM at CH, his portrait would presumably still hang (bad choice of word possibly), in the Dining Hall. Can anyone confirm this ?
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by Foureyes » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:43 pm

Derek Baker seems to be featuring on two separate postings, so to save readers cross-referencing I'll repeat what I just said:

"Derek Baker was an Old Blue (Lamb A 1943-50) and Head Master 1979-85. He died some years back.
He left the headship suddenly and under something of a cloud, amid considerable ill-feeling, but I do not know why.
Some years later I attended a dinner as a guest, and unbeknown to many of those present, DB had also been invited. I understood that it was his first C.H. function since leaving the headship. On his appearance in the middle of pre-dinner drinks, at least two people expressed outrage and walked out, never to return. As I say, I was a guest so not in a position to ask what that was all about, but his presence put something of a damper on proceedings. An odd incident which I remember to this day."

David :shock:

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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by Great Plum » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:27 pm

J.R. wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:30 pm
richardb wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:56 pm
Mid A 15 wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:11 pm
This thread suggests that Derek Baker is deceased.

viewtopic.php?t=4837
An appallingly unheralded death.

He appears to have taught at The Leys school who gave him nearly three pages of their magazine as a tribute.

Sadly he is likely to be an easy scapegoat for the school.

Interestingly Richard, I have just spent some time doing what one of my 'Old Jobs' taught me well, and have been trawling the internet for more background on the said teacher.

I would guess there has been some damage limitation done on some sites, possibly quite recently, to do some judicious (?) eradication of possible finger pointing in the future.

As he was HM at CH, his portrait would presumably still hang (bad choice of word possibly), in the Dining Hall. Can anyone confirm this ?
It was there last time I was there...
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by Avon » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:05 pm

I can’t resist an alternative a response to the thread title:

The food was undoubtedly wholesome, nutritious, and delicious - right up until the point where it entered the CH Kitchens.

Mrs Keely made Lucrezia Borgia seem like Nigella.
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Re: What was the food chain?

Post by J.R. » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:15 pm

As I seem to remember, the food was supposed to have 'improved' under the tenure of a new school physician, Dr. 'Tommy' Scott.

All I can remember from my first week in 1958 is that it was edible, (just). There was no choice, so it was a case of eat or starve.

However, I'm drifting off topic.
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