Karim's sentence hearing

yamaha · Post by **yamaha** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:10 am

I doubt it. The joining fee at Queens is about the same as a journalist's annual salary.

J.R. · Post by **J.R.** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:12 am

Katharine wrote: ↑Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:10 pm It was on the Radio 4 4pm news just after Ampleforth and Downside were mentioned,

Both the above schools got plenty of air time on various BBC news programmes last night.

I didn't find any television news references to Karim, however.

Katharine · Post by **Katharine** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:40 am

I had Radio 4 on much of the day, there was only the single reference to him as far as I heard.

scrub · Post by **scrub** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:50 am

I'd expect (hope for) more publicity after Dobbie's sentencing is handed down, especially if/when more is publicly made of the fact that Reverend Dobbie was a chaplain in the Chichester diocese who hosted Bishop Ball during his numerous visits to the school over the years.

michael scuffil · Post by **michael scuffil** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:59 am

I have not heard or read all the details of the evidence, and I know none of those involved. But from what I have read, I would have judged the offences committed by Burr and Webb to have been more heinous than those committed by Karim, not least because their victims were younger. The relative length of the sentences, therefore, surprises me. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the cases and the individuals could say something?

Post by **richardb** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:00 am

Sentencing has become extremely complex.

The Sentencing Council produces guidelines which judges have to take into acoount. These are designed to ensure that the same facts and circumstances get the same sentence in Canterbury as they would in Carlisle.

The guidelines largely embrace two concepts. Firstly the harm caused to the victim. And secondly the culpability of the offender. Purely as an extreme illustration, the culpability of an offender who has sexual intercourse with a girl the day before her 16th birthday will be less than an offender who commits the same offence against an eight year old.

In addition, guilty pleas are encouraged by offering a discount in sentence. The earlier that an offender pleads, the bigger the reduction. So the sentences for Webb and Burr will have been reduced by around 25% because they pleaded guilty. Hence the sentence for Karim is not necessarily a lot different from those of Webb and Burr once their credit for pleading guilty is taken into account.

Karim's position will have been aggravated by the fact that there were six victims so it works out at about a year and eight months for each.

I hope this helps.

yamaha · Post by **yamaha** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:26 am

Burr admitted nine counts of indecently assaulting boys aged between 11 and 14 and got 48 months.
If that is after a 25% reduction then the comparable sentence would be 64 months vs. Karim's 120 months.
It seems inconsistent and that Burr got off very lightly.

Post by **richardb** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:38 am

Burr's sentence was increased on an Attorney General's reference. He also received an extended sentence which puts him at risk of serving the full term.

The final sentence was 6 years and 7 months.

yamaha · Post by **yamaha** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:44 am

Judge Henson's sentence was 48 months ... after calling the court back to admit her first attempt at 42 months was a mistake.
The AG may appeal Karim's so surely the correct comparison must be made between Henson's sentencing.

Peter Burr was jailed at Hove crown court on Friday after admitting nine counts of indecently assaulting the boys aged between 11 and 14 at Christ’s Hospital between 1969 and 1973.

The judge, Christine Henson QC, initially sentenced him to 42 months in prison and concluded the hearing.

Moments later, the parties were called back to court.

Henson returned to say she had read out the wrong figure and sentenced him to 48 months instead. She added that her views on sentencing had not changed.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ing-pupils

Post by **richardb** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:54 am

Henson got it wrong, as she now knows.

If she hadn't been put right then Karim may have got lucky too.

Avon · Post by **Avon** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:54 pm

scrub wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:50 am I'd expect (hope for) more publicity after Dobbie's sentencing is handed down, especially if/when more is publicly made of the fact that Reverend Dobbie was a chaplain in the Chichester diocese who hosted Bishop Ball during his numerous visits to the school over the years.

Sometimes it helps put these things in single sentences to help search engines. Like:

Father priest chaplain CofE Gary Dobbie Christ's Hospital child sex abuse paedophile convicted school authorities neglect silence Bishop Peter Ball lies.

yamaha · Post by **yamaha** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:17 pm

Re: Karim's sentence hearing
Post by richardb » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:54 am

If she hadn't been put right then Karim may have got lucky too.

Do you think she got it right this time or are you going to refer to the AG?

J.R. · Post by **J.R.** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:34 pm

As far as Dobbie is concerned, general feeling is he could face more charges depending on-going investigations.

Post by **richardb** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:47 pm

yamaha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:17 pm
Re: Karim's sentence hearing
Post by richardb » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:54 am

If she hadn't been put right then Karim may have got lucky too.
Do you think she got it right this time or are you going to refer to the AG?

Personally I think it is low for 6 victims.

postwarblue · Post by **postwarblue** » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:19 pm

Making the first sentences concurrent seems to me to be wrong and shows insufficient respect for those victims, but I suppose there are legal reasons for this? In my view Karim should atone for each victim in turn (and with a longer stretch for each).

Out in five (or a bit less) and back to being the hard-done-by luvvie of that revolting tennis club seems hardly to meet the case.