Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

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Mid A 15
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Mid A 15 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:43 pm

seajayuu wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:45 pm
It’s noteworthy that you saw IAPOTP as A Good Thing. I’d never really reflected on it that way until now, but I remember it well. As a young inmate, and after a brief spell of Baker (and being oblivious to his failings) Hansford felt like an icy blast from the 1950s; the punishments were indeed nonsensical, the rhetoric in chapel was Victorian, and it didn’t help that he was accompanied by a disconnected relic that came in from The Other Place (swiftly superseded by Cairncross).
I find this a quite amazing post. "The Other Place" "a disconnected relic". Are you referring to Hertford and Miss Morrison? If so, it really does explain why so few female OBs bother with this forum.
'Avon' / Ed affects an acerbic style on this forum which, for those of us used to it, can amuse but I see also that it may occasionally offend those less used to it.

My opinion, having read his posts over many years, is that I don't think he intended to upset the always welcome posters from Hertford in any way.

The merger was way after my time and must have caused upheaval to all but having to relocate must have made it even more difficult for the girls.
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Avon » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:11 pm

Where in my posts is there disparagement of Hertford? Regardless of my views on Morrison (which I am entitled to express and others are entitled to disagree with) I feel that simply referring to Hertford as the ‘Other Place’ surfaced a response which seems to be indicative of a wider sense of unhappiness on the part of Hertford girls of which I’m not architect or advocate.

Katharine wrote:
Katharine wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:30 pm

Did the boys at Horsham at the time of the Merger ever wonder what it would have felt like to be moved lock stock and barrel to a different establishment? For them, there was the change, possibly the exciting change of girls around, but they were in a familiar environment, in familiar uniform, not so the girls.
I’m sure that some of us did reflect on this from time to time. What in my post implied that we did not?

Seajayuu wrote:
seajayuu wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:48 pm
I have a very clear memory of an OB day. I was standing looking at the attendees board and someone behind me said "I didn't even know that there was a girls school". The very first child admitted to CH was a girl. An awful lot of male OBs of a certain age have chosen to either forget or ignore the girls.
Terrific. Great dit - but the speaker was highly unlikely to have been a Blue or OB. My reference to Hertford was oblique simply because I felt that to an audience of Blues and Old Blues there were other narrative options other than ‘Hertford’, which would have been recognised. For my part I’ve neither elected to forget or ignore the girls at Hertford, but I can’t post energetically on the topic either!

For my part, the advent of girls to Horsham was a mix of awe and envy. They brought a fresh and interesting dimension, added some style and we all envied the work that had gone into Col and Ba to make them habitable, far beyond the spartan and aging standard that we had in the boy’s houses. The girls were very welcome and a force for good.

On the face of the (admittedly only) two responses above, there seems to be a degree of antagonism about the view in which Hertford is believed to be held. Posts passim by me on this forum (check - there aren’t many) play no part in this. I don’t hold that view and I don’t want it attached to me undeservedly, as I perceive the posts above are trying to.

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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by DeletedAccount » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:29 pm

Hello again Ed/Avon

It may be that you are missing the points, or some of them.

"The other place" was open to misinterpretation. It was misinterpreted.

Whilst it is absolutely fine to have differing views (and I agree with yours far more often than I don't, as it happens), you did appear in this instance to dismiss contrary views as mere nostalgia. I think that is what drove the negative reactions.

Anyway, Mid A's wise words were welcome.

Cheerio

Dick
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by michael scuffil » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:42 pm

That there was a girls' CH at Hertford must have been known to everyone at Horsham apart from maybe new boys in their first few weeks. There were also quite a few sibling pairs divided between the two schools. There were official exchange visits by senior pupils on each other's Speech Days, and both schools sent delegations to St Matthew's Day (Hertford, it must be admitted, very much a token one). Occasionally a piece by a Hertford girl appeared in the Horsham literary magazine 'Outlook'.

Obviously the move was a huge upheaval for all, and much more so for the girls. But for them too, it was accompanied by a huge increase in freedom.
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by seajayuu » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:47 pm

I understand that I am flogging a dead horse here but ..... it was a
male OB (proudly wearing a tie to remind him which school he had attended) who had no idea of the existence of Hertford.
Hertford was treated like a poor relation in many ways.

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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by J.R. » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:02 am

For Avon and to thank him for his PM regarding my quote of sexism, I'll just say that a teenage friend of mine went on to become a MP. (NO names, no...) We still meet up occasionly and chat.

He recently told me the parliamentry term 'The Other Place' is intended to show disdain and dislike for the Upper House.

This might explain why I thought your use of that phrase might jar with our lady colleagues.
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Avon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:16 am

Bad form to refer to PMs.

I disagree on TOP being negative; it’s a statement that implies a degree of competition, if anything else.

Anyways, sexism. Where exactly? You’re a moderator, and ‘you’re letting this ride’ - on the grounds I was apparently sexist?

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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Katharine » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:46 am

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree about the meaning of the phrase The Other Place, I’ve always understood it to be slightly derogatory, but perhaps that’s biased by being an Oxford graduate where it was derogatory about Cambridge.

Two years ago, Hertford Old Girls had a very clumsily worded appeal letter, see http://www.chforum.info/php/viewtopic.p ... er#p137034 The office did apologise, very promptly and very graciously but there was someone composing the letter who appeared to think we were inferior beings, without the full CH experience.

Is it any wonder we try to preserve our CH heritage?
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by J.R. » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:17 am

At least it has sparked some other controversial conversation other than historic abuse at Horsham. Well, until next March that is, unless more charges appear on the sheet.
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by postwarblue » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:12 am

The girls that came to Horsham for the Quatercentenary were shown round by, I suppose selected, Grecians. The buzz was that, on passing the pillar box outside the Common Room, one of the girls asked 'Are you allowed to post things in that?'

St Matthew's Day was the girls' only other manifestation for us.
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by marty » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:37 am

Katharine wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:46 am
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree about the meaning of the phrase The Other Place, I’ve always understood it to be slightly derogatory, but perhaps that’s biased by being an Oxford graduate where it was derogatory about Cambridge.
Anyone familiar with the film Withnail & I will know that the phrase "The Other Place" is used to refer to Eton - Withnail and Uncle Monty having attended Harrow. I've therefore always thought of "The Other Place" to infer a slightly tongue-in-cheek rivalry but nothing more than that. I guess context is everything.
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by J.R. » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:39 am

postwarblue wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:12 am
The girls that came to Horsham for the Quatercentenary were shown round by, I suppose selected, Grecians. The buzz was that, on passing the pillar box outside the Common Room, one of the girls asked 'Are you allowed to post things in that?'

St Matthew's Day was the girls' only other manifestation for us.
We're starting to drift slightly off topic now, but I'm sure I remember reading on here some time ago that the girls at Hertford had their mail checked, (censored ?), before being sent on. Of course, I may be wrong.
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by J.R. » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:42 am

marty wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:37 am
Katharine wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:46 am
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree about the meaning of the phrase The Other Place, I’ve always understood it to be slightly derogatory, but perhaps that’s biased by being an Oxford graduate where it was derogatory about Cambridge.
Anyone familiar with the film Withnail & I will know that the phrase "The Other Place" is used to refer to Eton - Withnail and Uncle Monty having attended Harrow. I've therefore always thought of "The Other Place" to infer a slightly tongue-in-cheek rivalry but nothing more than that. I guess context is everything.

A brilliant film, Marty, along with 'IF', both of which I have seen several times.
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Katharine » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:22 pm

J.R. wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:39 am
postwarblue wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:12 am
The girls that came to Horsham for the Quatercentenary were shown round by, I suppose selected, Grecians. The buzz was that, on passing the pillar box outside the Common Room, one of the girls asked 'Are you allowed to post things in that?'

St Matthew's Day was the girls' only other manifestation for us.
We're starting to drift slightly off topic now, but I'm sure I remember reading on here some time ago that the girls at Hertford had their mail checked, (censored ?), before being sent on. Of course, I may be wrong.
You are quite right, John. I can well remembered being taken to task by my housemistress for something I’d written on an airmail form to my OB aunt. Said aunt had sent a whole crate of South African grapes to me, I think in my first term, she was so pleased I’d followed her to 6s. Naturally I shared the grapes with the whole house, including giving the housemistress a bunch just for her. I had to request in the shopping book that someone should buy me an airmail form so I could thank her. It was more than a fortnight before I could write my letter, which started apologising for the delay in writing, explaining why.

It was as if I’d committed sacrilege of the worst order! Did I think the whole house removed around me, its most junior member? Etc etc, I’m sure had it been in writing paper it would have been torn up in front of me!
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Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by michael scuffil » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:29 pm

postwarblue wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:12 am
The girls that came to Horsham for the Quatercentenary were shown round by, I suppose selected, Grecians. The buzz was that, on passing the pillar box outside the Common Room, one of the girls asked 'Are you allowed to post things in that?'

St Matthew's Day was the girls' only other manifestation for us.
My contact with Hertford was limited to their and our Speech Days when I was a first parting Grecian. As there were fewer girls at all levels, one of them was assigned to two of us at Hertford, to show us around. There seem to have been no restrictions -- she showed us around her very swish two-girl flat. And when they came to Horsham, the two of us found the same girl and showed her round.

The censorship of letters at Hertford was notorious. And the grounds were much smaller, with no copses and unused buildings for nefarious activities. It must have seemed like a breath of fresh air, coming to Horsham. But on the other hand I imagine you were subjected to constant 'sizing up', that being the way human sexuality works. This might well feel harassing, even if it's not harassment.
Th.B. 27 1955-63

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