Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

Moderator: Moderators

CodFlabAndMuck
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:55 pm
Real Name: J Eabnvu
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by CodFlabAndMuck » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:42 pm

The Band went to Hertford on one occasion and we marched the girls into lunch.

I remember thinking how small the place was and in a town as well, compared to the isolation and size of the Horsham site.

A very pleasant day and always nice to get out of the school grounds for a few hours.

99 Red Balloons was on the radio, so must have been 1984.

User avatar
Mid A 15
Button Grecian
Posts: 3035
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 1:38 pm
Real Name: Claude Rains
Location: The Patio Of England (Kent)
Has thanked: 84 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Mid A 15 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:06 pm

CodFlabAndMuck wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:42 pm
The Band went to Hertford on one occasion and we marched the girls into lunch.

I remember thinking how small the place was and in a town as well, compared to the isolation and size of the Horsham site.

A very pleasant day and always nice to get out of the school grounds for a few hours.

99 Red Balloons was on the radio, so must have been 1984.
Why did you have to post that? :wink:

I can't get the damned tune out of my head now!
These users thanked the author Mid A 15 for the post:
CodFlabAndMuck (Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:06 pm)
Rating: 5.88%
Ma A, Mid A 65 -72

Avon
Deputy Grecian
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:39 pm
Real Name: Ed Bell
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Avon » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Mid A 15 wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:06 pm
CodFlabAndMuck wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:42 pm
The Band went to Hertford on one occasion and we marched the girls into lunch.

I remember thinking how small the place was and in a town as well, compared to the isolation and size of the Horsham site.

A very pleasant day and always nice to get out of the school grounds for a few hours.

99 Red Balloons was on the radio, so must have been 1984.
Why did you have to post that? :wink:

I can't get the damned tune out of my head now!
The German version is particularly ‘sticky’ in that regard.

michael scuffil
Button Grecian
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:53 pm
Real Name: michael scuffil
Location: germany
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by michael scuffil » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:40 pm

That was the delectable Nena, was it not?

She's still around, though I believe she makes her living as a comedian these days.
Th.B. 27 1955-63

sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 3394
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown ColA '53-'61
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by sejintenej » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:50 pm

seajayuu wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:47 pm

male OB (proudly wearing a tie to remind him which school he had attended) who had no idea of the existence of Hertford.
Hertford was treated like a poor relation in many ways.
Chrissy; I have to disagree with my honourable colleague.
At my time, amongst the boys there was no mention of the Hertford School. At St Matthews Day they were behind us in fairly ordinary clothing (by comparison) so the question was "what are they doing here and who are they? Mention is made of meetings between the most senior boys and those from Hertford; the rank and file of us never even heard about such meetings. Siblings at Hertford; could well be but I never heard mention of it.

OK so the first pupil was a girl but that was in 1554 - a bit before my time!

As for Outlook, never heard of it.

This is not to denigrate Hertford and what you had to go through first with certain headmistresses and second with a life-changing move (which was long after my time).
Last edited by sejintenej on Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Every government carries a health warning

sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 3394
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown ColA '53-'61
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by sejintenej » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:56 pm

marty wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:37 am
Anyone familiar with the film Withnail & I will know that the phrase "The Other Place" is used to refer to Eton - Withnail and Uncle Monty having attended Harrow. I've therefore always thought of "The Other Place" to infer a slightly tongue-in-cheek rivalry but nothing more than that. I guess context is everything.
Having lived for 12 years in a house occupied by Old Etonians (except for the months at CH) I have heard them refer to Eton as "the other place" but never understood the reason
Every government carries a health warning

michael scuffil
Button Grecian
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:53 pm
Real Name: michael scuffil
Location: germany
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by michael scuffil » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:11 pm

As for Outlook, never heard of it.

Well you should have done. It was published at least twice a year and possibly termly the whole time you were at CH. Sold about 200 copies each time, I believe. As school literary magazines go, it was quite good. (Perhaps it's still going -- anyone know?)
Th.B. 27 1955-63

blueeyedboy
3rd Former
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:37 pm
Real Name: Charlie
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by blueeyedboy » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:01 pm

One other regular contact during the 70s, between Horsham and Hertford that hasn't been mentioned thus far - namely the annual 2nd form Classics trips. One year a delegation of about 20 from Horsham would visit Hertford and visit St Alban's, the following one vice versa for a visit to Fishbourne. Overnight accomodation was at the two infirmaries, and at least at Horsham selection was from the top two sets, half on merit and half by random ballot. A small but hugely civilised and fondly remembered (by me; got lucky in the ballot!) initiative, with I think the hugely civilised John Smith the prime mover at the Horsham end. Sadly after his tragic death I think it may have faded gently away.

Katharine
Button Grecian
Posts: 3045
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:44 pm
Real Name: Katharine Dobson
Location: Gwynedd
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Katharine » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:05 pm

I don’t remember ever hearing about those Classics trips, but I was out of Britain for most of the 70s!

Having lived near St Albans as a child, I always loved trips to Verulamium and was fascinated by the floors uncovered, I found them more interesting than other artefacts for some reason!
These users thanked the author Katharine for the post:
blueeyedboy (Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:45 pm)
Rating: 5.88%
Katharine Dobson (Hills) 6.14, 1959 - 1965
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia!

robert totterdell
3rd Former
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:58 pm
Real Name: Mr Robert G S Totterdell
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 120 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by robert totterdell » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:23 pm

Sorry for not responding to all of this sooner (almost wish that I hadn't asked the question). My Address to the Council is on the 2nd November so have been concentrating on that, but...

whether people like it or not, the abuse continued under Baker and Hansford. I am concerned about the punishment regime ' changing'. There was a lad in my time in Mid A who was a bit ' off the wall' and on one Saturday I came back to the house after cycling from my Grandparents in Dunsfold to find my House Captain (I was the second monitor) was with his girlfriend in Horsham and Pengelly had disappeared but had booze with him - no idea where he got it from but he looked quite old for his age so I guess he went into Horsham in flannels which we were allowed to wear then if the weather was hot (Summer Term).

I knew the consequences - Newsome would have beaten him (he was pretty good looking) quite a lot and then he would have been expelled. I had to report to Lorimer that all was well (the Housemaster) and he knew I was lying, and then sent out search parties. We found Pengelly out cold next to the railway crossing with his hand just a few inches away from the live rail. He had a bottle of Vodka and a bottle of Whisky empty next to him.

We took him to the Infirmary and I made them get Dr. Hoskins to come in. I told Hoskins that if he said anything I would call Horsham Hospital and request an ambulance which would be shameful for the school. Hoskins agreed to help him - he gave him something to make him throw up - a lot!

I told Lorimer that he had taken sick and that was that - I told Mike Savage that he was the most useless House Captain and Grecian ever, on his return.

I guess that this makes me as bad as Sillett, Cairncross or Fleming but I got Pengelly through to A Levels and I never lost his respect.

Newsome left 'under a cloud' I believe due to finances and his appalling regime and arrogance which continued into his new role. I had no idea about Baker but again finance seems to be an issue. What you all must remember is that in the early '70s Newsome and the Council had embarked on a massive expenditure plan which included a Theatre and new classroom block, a new sports centre and running track with a new swimming pool (to replace the 1904 Olympic standard one with the amazing slippery tiles) and the Octagon which ended up being Newsome's personal lecture theatre. The cost was £500 k. However, due to Heath's inflation, the Sports Centre got dropped and it still cost CH over £690 k (sorry can't do a pound sign as there is a problem with the keyboard). Now added for you, Robert

Sir Eric Riches, the then Treasurer, and Chairman sold off much of the 'family silver' to cover the debts but there was a significant residue and fee-paying pupils were only just coming online and the City institutions that supported CH were pretty much in the same sh1t as CH.

What about Southern who took over from Poulton? The abuse continued under his regime and it was covered up?

Katharine
Button Grecian
Posts: 3045
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:44 pm
Real Name: Katharine Dobson
Location: Gwynedd
Has thanked: 71 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Katharine » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:40 pm

I've been thinking about you as you prepare for your meeting with the Council, Robert. I'm sure all the readers of this Forum will be wishing you the strength to say what must be said.
These users thanked the author Katharine for the post:
Mid A 15 (Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:19 pm)
Rating: 5.88%
Katharine Dobson (Hills) 6.14, 1959 - 1965
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia!

sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 3394
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown ColA '53-'61
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by sejintenej » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:50 pm

robert totterdell wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:23 pm

I knew the consequences - Newsome would have beaten him (he was pretty good looking) quite a lot and then he would have been expelled. I had to report to Lorimer that all was well (the Housemaster) and he knew I was lying, and then sent out search parties. We found Pengelly out cold next to the railway crossing with his hand just a few inches away from the live rail. He had a bottle of Vodka and a bottle of Whisky empty next to him.

We took him to the Infirmary and I made them get Dr. Hoskins to come in. I told Hoskins that if he said anything I would call Horsham Hospital and request an ambulance which would be shameful for the school. Hoskins agreed to help him - he gave him something to make him throw up - a lot!

I told Lorimer that he had taken sick and that was that - I told Mike Savage that he was the most useless House Captain and Grecian ever, on his return.

I guess that this makes me as bad as Sillett, Cairncross or Fleming but I got Pengelly through to A Levels and I never lost his respect.
I'm sorry Rob but based on what you write I strongly disagree.

When you did basic training or OTC was there someone in your squad who would have failed out unless others helped him? By helping that person get through the course were they in the wrong? Would it have been wrong for someone to help you, give you a buck up if you needed it? (OK if you knew that helping him would hace created a bl**dy dangerous squaddy or officer then that is different)

Presumably that unnamed boy was not pushed into getting blind drunk - he did it to himself. You effectively kept him at school, gave him a push to get his A levels. You, almost his age and ALSO a minor, gave him a better chance in the game of life. You should be proud of what you did.

You lied to Lorimer and he knew it - it is that latter phrase which is important. You arranged for the search and Lorimer did not take the course that he could have very possibly out of respect for the risk you had taken.

By contrast those teachers, adults with the school authority behind them, with the knowledge of their many years of life, assaulted innocent minors in a manner totally contrary to law and decency. A totally different story.

It comes down to your own respect for yourself and never to what other people think.
These users thanked the author sejintenej for the post:
Mid A 15 (Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:20 pm)
Rating: 5.88%
Every government carries a health warning

Golfer
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:13 pm
Real Name: Tim Askew
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by Golfer » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:44 pm

robert totterdell wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:23 pm
What about Southern who took over from Poulton? The abuse continued under his regime and it was covered up?
Robert. I totally understand your concern and your pain. But I suspect that only the closure of CH would satisfy your desire to keep children safe in education, KCSIE. Many caring parents would, after all, never send their children to boarding school because of the risks (most of which are usually down to the other children). Someone who has been abused at boarding school can probably never be satisfied that it could not happen again.

robert totterdell
3rd Former
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:58 pm
Real Name: Mr Robert G S Totterdell
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 120 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by robert totterdell » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:10 pm

No Golfer

I would never want the closure of CH.

What I want is an apology - and that is it.

I did what I did on that occasion as I believed then it was right and I stand by it.

Every person deserves more than one chance - if I was wrong then I must take ownership of the wrong doing.

It is time for CH to take ownership of their wrongdoing.
These users thanked the author robert totterdell for the post (total 3):
J.R. (Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:15 pm) • sejintenej (Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:12 am) • Mid A 15 (Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:20 pm)
Rating: 17.65%

User avatar
marty
Grecian
Posts: 774
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:29 pm
Real Name: Marty E
Location: Buckinghamshire
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Resignation of Baker and emergency appointment of Hansford

Post by marty » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:26 am

robert totterdell wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:23 pm
Sorry for not responding to all of this sooner (almost wish that I hadn't asked the question). My Address to the Council is on the 2nd November so have been concentrating on that, but...

whether people like it or not, the abuse continued under Baker and Hansford. I am concerned about the punishment regime ' changing'. There was a lad in my time in Mid A who was a bit ' off the wall' and on one Saturday I came back to the house after cycling from my Grandparents in Dunsfold to find my House Captain (I was the second monitor) was with his girlfriend in Horsham and Pengelly had disappeared but had booze with him - no idea where he got it from but he looked quite old for his age so I guess he went into Horsham in flannels which we were allowed to wear then if the weather was hot (Summer Term).

I knew the consequences - Newsome would have beaten him (he was pretty good looking) quite a lot and then he would have been expelled. I had to report to Lorimer that all was well (the Housemaster) and he knew I was lying, and then sent out search parties. We found Pengelly out cold next to the railway crossing with his hand just a few inches away from the live rail. He had a bottle of Vodka and a bottle of Whisky empty next to him.

We took him to the Infirmary and I made them get Dr. Hoskins to come in. I told Hoskins that if he said anything I would call Horsham Hospital and request an ambulance which would be shameful for the school. Hoskins agreed to help him - he gave him something to make him throw up - a lot!

I told Lorimer that he had taken sick and that was that - I told Mike Savage that he was the most useless House Captain and Grecian ever, on his return.

I guess that this makes me as bad as Sillett, Cairncross or Fleming but I got Pengelly through to A Levels and I never lost his respect.
Rob, I have to agree with sejintenej - you were looking out for a fellow pupil. You potentially saved his life and you definitely saved his school career. There is no comparison to be made with your actions and those of others.
These users thanked the author marty for the post (total 2):
sejintenej (Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:44 am) • Mid A 15 (Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:20 pm)
Rating: 11.76%
Paradise is for the blessed. Not for the sex-obsessed.

Post Reply