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I'm a current pupil at CH writing an article for one of the school newspapers (no one really reads it but it's something to do) about times gone by. Specifically, I'm focusing on traditions and customs that seem odd in comparison to how the school is run now.
Attached is a scan of an old punishment booklet I found in the school museum. I was wondering if anyone knows what the punishment 1 P.O.P means. I'm guessing one mile means a lap around the mile.
Any feedback, or anecdotes about something that you experienced at Christ's Hospital, for that matter, would be greatly appreciated.
I asked the question Many moons ago about punishment books without success.
We had a punishment in Coleridge given by the monitors called a 'Post Office' which entailed running do to the post office and back within a set time. It was properly called a 'Quarter Mile'.
I agree with John's explanation - each house had its own punishments and in Col A monitors could give Post Office Paths and Miles. The POP was to change from (or afterwards to) full housey dress and run to the gate by the post office (now the public entrance) and back. A mile was also a change of clothes and around the long mile. Both were timed - for each boy the time was roughly based on what he could just about do. I think when I was 16 my mile limit was about 5minutes 45seconds - my mile time on the track was 5minutes 30 so I had 15 seconds to change!!!. Failure to do it in the time and you had to try it again. If you failed three or so times but were close the monitor concerned would usually take the punishment as fulfilled - it was his decision. Heaven help any boy who tried to cheat.............!
The only punishments a housemaster had were (I think) a beating with a cane or slipper, four or six strokes, in private.
On one occasion in the Prep (boys 9 to 11) there was a kerfuffle after lights out on the night before going home and Mr Jones gave every boy in the dorm* a single cane stroke over their pyjamas. *that would have been sixty or a few more.
There were supposed to be written records of monitors and housemasters punishments and I know my housemaster (Kit Aitken) would peruse the monitors' punishments but i never heard of his complaining - we were pretty careful to be reasonable and fair.
Hope this helps
David
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
Thanks David for the swift and helpful reply. This explains what seems like a bizarre punishment by today's standards.
Would it be ok if I put your name in the article as a source?
I'll post the article in the forum when it is finished.
Charlie
Charlie. Try to read as much as you can. Punishments were just a small element a mountain of information about CH as it was and how it has changed.
Please remember that life in general has changed radically over the years. What was normal or accepted then is often prohibited now.
I see our respected teacher (Ajarn) has given you something to read. Enjoy
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
Thanks for all the replies!
Does anyone know how to attach a word document to these posts? Can it even be done? If there is interest I'll see if I can post at least my article if not the whole edition of the upcoming newspaper.
Charlie
I too look forward to seeing the final product. Thanks very much Charlie. You may well show us how things have changed. Perhaps you can note which of the punishments you've read about are not acceptable today, and why? Also please tell us which punishment book(s) you have examined (ie from which houses, which dates and whether the punishments were given by boys or masters?)
Another thing, not mentioned so far, is that apart from “official” punishments recorded in the book, there were some unofficial and unrecorded punishments, administered by a boy who thought them justified and who could successfully do so on someone (smaller and) junior to him. These included fotches, tops and plenty more. Some of this is also recorded in the Forum. In my experience these punishments were very rarely abused and, in my house at least, this did not result in bullying.
7th March 1948 - eating in the dormitory; oh, naughty, naughty - does anyone here plead guilty? that was during rationing when any food was to consume as soon as possible. Looks like JRS liked giving out punishments.
William; I suggest that these were given by monitors - in my time POPs and miles were never given by the housemasters I knew.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
Types of punishment started to change dramatically, (less brutal) after C.M.E. Seaman retired, a few years after I left and the new broom started radical changes !
J.R. wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:29 pm
Types of punishment started to change dramatically, (less brutal) after C.M.E. Seaman retired, a few years after I left and the new broom started radical changes !
I think that you need to differentiate. Caning and slippering were brutal, true. However with all the sport we were physically fit and determined so PO paths and miles were minor disturbances in Col A.
From subsequent situations outside CH several of us from CH were put against boys from elsewhere in the Welsh mountains and not stretched as many of them were.
Four days after leaving CH I was working in Norwegian mountains carrying a 110 lb pack under the command of an SAS NCO. First day was "easy" - only about 14 hours slog. Fortunately I had CH type of fitness.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
David Brown, don't get too carried away with this physical fitness lark vis a vis climbing and mountaineering. In the post war period the big advances in climbing - here and by our climbers in the Alps - were pushed forward almost exclusively by working class lads. Chris Bonington (boarding school and Sandhurst) is something of an exception. If you've climbed in Langdale, and Idwal in Wales, as you claim, you must have come across hard local climbers. Langdale (and particularly those who slept rough in the Wall End Barn) is synonymous with the legendary Don Whillans (a plumber from Salford) who was tough as hell by all accounts, never shirked a fight and went on to partner Bonington in the big ranges. His own partner was often Joe Brown (a builder from Manchester) who went on to be part of the team that first climbed Kanchenjunga (the world's third highest mountain).
The clubs in those days were the Fell and Rock in the Lake District, the Bradford Lads, the Snow and Ice in Manchester and the Creagh Dhu in Glasgow (which included Dougal Haston in its ranks). They got to the mountain areas at the weekends by whatever means - public transport, motorbikes, second-hand vans or hitchhiking. They were already tough and resourceful. They didn't need the English boarding school.
rockfreak wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:41 pm
David Brown, don't get too carried away with this physical fitness lark vis a vis climbing and mountaineering.
My point was that when you put CH pupils against boys of similar age from state school we did well by comparison. I saw that in Wales and in Norway. In each case we are dealing with peak running and with trekking with heavy loads.
I am more than well aware of all the names you mention and yes, I started on sandstone close to CH, went on to Idwal slabs and the Devil's kitchen and went on from there but never was I up to the abilities of those people.Two CH pupils were considered good enough to be in mountain rescue teams that I know of.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
Charlie - it is worth saying that these running punishments awarded by monitors varied to some extent from house to house.
I was in Barnes B in the early sixties and the punishments then/there were the loop (8 minutes I think), the mile (10) and the double mile (20), but I am open to correction about the timings.
It's been mentioned that in other houses the punishment time included changing from, and back into, full housey dress. By my time this was regarded in Barnes B as unhygienic - you worked up quite a sweat on a run like that - and the times were adjusted to permit starting and ending in games clothes.
One thing I do remember was that it was a good deal easier to complete the double mile than the mile: one was allowed double the time, but the distance was a good deal less than double, as it you saved one of the round trips from the dayroom up to and back from the quarter mile. The start was normally in the dayroom so that other boys could see that you were being punished.
Possibly the difference in the tracks run as punishments in the different houses depended on what the monitors could see of the victim without walking too far. The monitors would wish to check that you actually were running the full distance, but without putting themselves out too much. It was quite common to cut across the top section of the loop, for example.
I am guessing that the two sets of (monitor) initials at the end of each line represent the person who gave the punishment, and the person who verified that it had been done.
Hi Dennis
My recollection of times were:
Loop 5 minutes
Mile 8 minutes
Long mile (Mile with the extra bit around the loop) 10 minutes
Double mile 16 minutes.
You had already moved for the final year as a mixed age house before Barnes B became a junior house, but you may remember Fisher. He was dayroom monitor, and whilst I gave about 5 punishments in the whole year, Fisher was giving over 60 a term.
My tactic started when I was dormitory monitor and someone was crawling around the floor. As no-one owned up, I had them all on an hour sit down, on the settles, facing the wall. After that I had no trouble.
Still collecting Citroen?
