Has anyone seen the Rock School ad on C4?

[Spoonbill]

Okay. I saw it last night (repeated on C4 at lunchtime today) and here are the profound thoughts of a humble spoonbill.

I imagined I might not watch it (or might watch it through my fingers, in cringe mode), but actually managed to stomach it fairly well.

Now here's the thing: CH is a charity school, intended to offer the chance of a 'good education' to kids from relatively rootsy non-wealthy backgrounds. Whenever anyone asks me about CH, I stress the fact that it's not a toffs' school but basically full of lower-lower-middle-class and working-class kids, many from London council estates, many from single-parent familes, etc., etc. That's to say, we were a pretty credible, rough-round-the-edges bunch with a fair smattering of cockney accents. But now that Rock School's on TV, the public's getting a distorted view. See, the band members have been picked from amongst kids who are already undertaking formal music studies - and as we know, most kids who have music lessons are the middle-class kids of middle-class parents of the type who want their kids to learn the piano, violin, clarinet, cello etc. and who often bring their kids up to look down their noses at any kind of popular music.

Result? A bunch of CH kids on TV who all speak with nice middle-class (or even posh) accents, who are totally unrepresentative of your run-of-the-mill scruffy, cheery Houseyboy from Battersea and who lack credibility desperately due to their perceived ignorance of youth culture. In other words, the kind of kids which Horsham teenagers have long (wrongly) imagined constitute the backbone of CH.

Maybe you'll say I'm displaying some kind of reverse snobbery here, but I really resent CH being misrepresented in such a high-profile context. I didn't care for being at CH myself, but one of the few things I liked about it was that it wasn't a posh public school full of the ignorant offspring of the social elite. I just wish that aspect of CH had been made clear from the start and that there'd been a few Cockney accents around.

[East Gun Copse]

Can anyone tell me what Elvish is, they didn't have it in my day, does it come under Classics department or M.L.

[DavebytheSea]

Rural Studies, perhaps?

[Richard Ruck]

Maybe you'll say I'm displaying some kind of reverse snobbery here, but I really resent CH being misrepresented in such a high-profile context. I didn't care for being at CH myself, but one of the few things I liked about it was that it wasn't a posh public school full of the ignorant offspring of the social elite. I just wish that aspect of CH had been made clear from the start and that there'd been a few Cockney accents around.

Well, I have to agree with you there.

The problem is that it suits the agenda of both the broadcasters and Gene Simmons to emphasise the cultural differences, whether real or imagined.

The fact is, as we all know, that C.H., although it has turned out many musicians who are skilled in the classical field, has never been cut off from popular culture in the way that the T.V. companies would have everybody believe.

I watched the programme, and, although I was surprised myself, I have to say I quite enjoyed it.

The programme makers, though, were at pains to stress that the kids had never heard of Kiss. Why the hell should they be familiar with Kiss?

These boys and girls were not even born when Kiss were at the zenith of their career.

Who was popular a quarter of a century before I started at C.H. (1972)? Even Elvis hadn't got going then.

Would we have been familiar with the popular music of the mid-late 1940's? I don't think so..........

[J.R.]

Well, I watched it and was suitably impressed.

Showed that Gene did teacher training before mbarking on a career in music.

Roll on next Friday.

[DavebytheSea]

Was Elvis the originator of Elvish, perhaps? The lingua franca of drunken pop idols??

[Jeeves]

... Why the hell should they be familiar with Kiss?

These boys and girls were not even born when Kiss were at the zenith of their career.

Who was popular a quarter of a century before I started at C.H. (1972)? Even Elvis hadn't got going then.

Would we have been familiar with the popular music of the mid-late 1940's? I don't think so..........

In that case why should these boys and girls be familiar with classical music, a lot of it was written hundreds of years before their birth. I suppose it shows that classical music really has stood the test of time.

If these children are music students surely they would have some sort 'music appreciation' lessons where they would have been taught about music other than classical by the music department. When I was at C.H. we were taught about 20th century musical genres like rock, pop, blues, jazz (including 40s swing) as well as classical. I am not surprised that many of them do not listen to rock, especially after hearing some of the bands today that try to associate themselves with rock music.

Popular music such as rock passes through phases of being "in", when I was at C.H. many of us (including myself) were listening to 60's & 70's rock/pop. Some of us even listened to 30s-60s jazz.

Although the children being filmed did not really know anything about Gene or had ever heard Kiss hits (lucky them) I am sure that many of the pupils knew about Kiss. Note the huge number of pupils flocking to him for autographs in episode one.

[Mrs C.]

Although the children being filmed did not really know anything about Gene or had ever heard Kiss hits (lucky them) I am sure that many of the pupils knew about Kiss. Note the huge number of pupils flocking to him for autographs in episode one.

I think it was more because they were told he was famous!

[Mid A 15]

Okay. I saw it last night (repeated on C4 at lunchtime today) and here are the profound thoughts of a humble spoonbill.

I imagined I might not watch it (or might watch it through my fingers, in cringe mode), but actually managed to stomach it fairly well.

Now here's the thing: CH is a charity school, intended to offer the chance of a 'good education' to kids from relatively rootsy non-wealthy backgrounds. Whenever anyone asks me about CH, I stress the fact that it's not a toffs' school but basically full of lower-lower-middle-class and working-class kids, many from London council estates, many from single-parent familes, etc., etc. That's to say, we were a pretty credible, rough-round-the-edges bunch with a fair smattering of cockney accents. But now that Rock School's on TV, the public's getting a distorted view. See, the band members have been picked from amongst kids who are already undertaking formal music studies - and as we know, most kids who have music lessons are the middle-class kids of middle-class parents of the type who want their kids to learn the piano, violin, clarinet, cello etc. and who often bring their kids up to look down their noses at any kind of popular music.

Result? A bunch of CH kids on TV who all speak with nice middle-class (or even posh) accents, who are totally unrepresentative of your run-of-the-mill scruffy, cheery Houseyboy from Battersea and who lack credibility desperately due to their perceived ignorance of youth culture. In other words, the kind of kids which Horsham teenagers have long (wrongly) imagined constitute the backbone of CH.

Maybe you'll say I'm displaying some kind of reverse snobbery here, but I really resent CH being misrepresented in such a high-profile context. I didn't care for being at CH myself, but one of the few things I liked about it was that it wasn't a posh public school full of the ignorant offspring of the social elite. I just wish that aspect of CH had been made clear from the start and that there'd been a few Cockney accents around.

My thoughts exactly Spoonbill. I think it must suit the"agenda" behind the programme to show the transformation of "posh" kids to rock performers. Fair enough from a TV ratings viewpoint. I'm not sure it helps or properly represents the School though.

[Richard Ruck]

In that case why should these boys and girls be familiar with classical music, a lot of it was written hundreds of years before their birth.

Surely this is because they are all studying classical music. Isn't this why these particular kids were invited to take part in the first place?

[Jeeves]

In that case why should these boys and girls be familiar with classical music, a lot of it was written hundreds of years before their birth.

Surely this is because they are all studying classical music. Isn't this why these particular kids were invited to take part in the first place?

Yes, I am fully aware that they are studying classical music. You made a point questioning whether or not they should be familiar with music that was made around a quarter of a century ago, before they were born.

Yes, you would expect them not to know much about 'rock' music, but you'd expect them to know something. As I was saying earlier, in C.H. music lessons we would learn about music other than classical. Surely these children would have engaged in such lessons.

[Richard Ruck]

Yes, it's quite likely that they would be aware of the types of music, but maybe not familiar with all the names.

It's interesting to hear about the music appreciation lessons you had.

We had some too, but officially only classical music was offered, and these lessons were only the choice of a small minority.

As Grecians, though, we had a couple of periods each week set aside as a sort of 'special studies' course. One of these covered the history and appreciation of jazz, and was run in the Grecians Club by Dr. Richard 'Pinky' Palmer - very popular.

Apart from that, it was up to us.

[englishangel]

Surely all things Elvish come under Comparative Religion.

At Hertford I remember music lessons. (I also had piano lessons but that is a very painful memory) I don't remember studying rock, do remember jazz.

We certainly listened to the Top 10 on Radio 1 on a sunday evening. (and to Radio Luxembourg under the blankets.

The first record I ever bought was 'Somethin'Stupid' by Frank and Nancy Sinatra.

I was also a big fan of the Beatles, Hermans Hermits, The Kinks, Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky Mick and Tich, and my veryfavourites, The Tremeloes especially Len (Chip) Hawkes, he marries a Pan's Person I believe. Sience is Golden still sends shivers up my spine.

Of course THE songs of my genration was 'Young Girl' by Gary Puckett and Union Gap (1968 when I was 14) and 'School's Out' from 1972, the year I left.

I bet the Houseybous have heard of Alice Cooper.

[jtaylor]

CH website has a page devoted to this:-

http://www.christs-hospital.org.uk/rockschool.html

And, it looks like a second series is on it's way....

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds20975.html

Channel 4 wants more 'Rock School'
Saturday, April 30 2005, 15:07 BST -- by Daniel Kilkelly

Channel 4 has decided to commission a second series of upcoming show Rock School before a single episode has aired.

The show sees Kiss bassist Gene Simmons turning classical music students into rock stars. After their training, the students, who wear yellow stockings and a 16th century frock coat as part of their school uniform, opened for Motorhead.

The next series will see pupils from an inner city state school being given the same treatment.

[jhopgood]

I saw the programme but will miss the remainder as I will be abroad. Anyone know where I can get a copy?
A few comments.
I may have misheard but thought someone said they had a music scholarship. If so, there was no such thing in my day, when you paid for lessons unless you were in the band. Hence learning the piano, violin etc was outside my parent's budget. I learned the trombone and have just resumed contact with the beast after a break of nearly 40 years.
How did they choose the participants, who don't seem representative, at least they would not have been in my day?
Elven must be Tolkien inspired, as anyone who was taught? by Tom Keeley after exams, would know.
Unless I am mistaken, 2 members of the Fortunes, of 1960's pop fame, were Old Blues. How many Young Old Blues would know that and should we be surprised if they don't?
Popular music education in my day was Radio Luxembourg, until caught, records in the dayroom on Saturday night, which depended on which monitor had control of the record player. I developed a taste for Jazz, Cannonball Adderley and Mose Allison, but we also had Small Faces, Dave Dee etc etc. All up to us, and very enjoyable too.