Grecian with a capital G?

[DavebytheSea]

I fear I may be in error, Mrs. C.

You, in common with most people I daresay, spell Grecian with a capital letter - ie appertaining in some way to Greece, no doubt from whence the CH grecian is derived. I tend to use the small g on the grounds that the word corresponds fairly exactly these days to a sixth former. My wife (and, I think, everyone else including, no doubt, the whole Christ's Hospital community) evidently prefers the large initial letter. She claimed success when she discovered the word (defining a senior student as Christ's Hospital) spelt "Grecian". However, Judith then discovered that indeed every word in the entire dictionary was prefixed similarly with the larger letter.

Please, is there anybody out there who thinks I may be correct in supposing this is not a proper name but merely defines a category? If not, I fear, I may have to succumb to the weight of opinion and change my habit although I have never believed that the majority opinion must necessarily be assumed always to be correct.

[Richard Ruck]

Well, Little Erasmus and Great Erasmus feature capital letters, therefore it's only logical, given the hierarchical procession, that 'Grecian' and, I suppose, 'Deputy Grecian' should follow suit....

[DavebytheSea]

I gather that the Erasmus referred to here is not, as generally supposed the famous Dutch renaissance scholar, but some worthy 18th century benefactor of the foundation after whom these new (capitalised) forms were named.

Not so with grecians and deputy grecians - they may have once been students of a classical language but were not so designated after a named individual.

[sejintenej]

I gather that the Erasmus referred to here is not, as generally supposed the famous Dutch renaissance scholar, but some worthy 18th century benefactor of the foundation after whom these new (capitalised) forms were named.

Not so with grecians and deputy grecians - they may have once been students of a classical language but were not so designated after a named individual.

Whilst I can accept your first point about the origin of the word, surely in the middle of a sentence should you not write "greater Erasmus"? When referring to state schools do you refer to the Sixth Form or sixth form? I think it is more a matter of usage than design.

Unfortunately my secretary halfinched my copy of the Financial Times writing manual which included all this sort of thing (a marvelous and recommended book) but The Right Word at the Right Time suggests that all typoes of organisation (including educational) should be capitalised. It doesn't (unfortunately) give an educational example. There is the comment "capitalise words followed by a number to indicate sequence, eg Section Two. I can see the parallel to Form Six or Form 6and therefore to Greater Erasmus.

I'm sure you didn't want to know all that but too bad

[UserRemovedAccount]

DavebytheSea has opened another can of worms. Leaving aside place names, the most usual method of using capitals (or not) is with ranks. So, for example, when applied to an individual, the rank begins with a capital; eg, "Captain Smith was a naval officer." BUT "Smith was the only captain present." That is, however, of only marginal guidance in this case, since "Grecian" is not a rank per se, but a statement of status; one does not, for example, refer to "Grecian Smith." However, I suggest that, as so often with the English language, there is a degree of flexibility and that any writer can exercise a degree of personal discretion; i.e., he can be subjective. This is unlike German, where there is a rule for everything, and if no rule exists, there is an official committee which makes one up.

On that basis, the guidance I set myself is that capital letters are used to bestow a sense of importance and emphasis on a word. Thus, for example, I would write "Jones was treasurer of the Darts Club" BUT "Smith was the Treasurer of Christ's Hospital." Similarly, I would write "Joe is a Governor of Christ's Hospital." Ergo, the status of the select band of the most academically-advanced boys and girls at the school is so exalted, so well-accepted and so hallowed by tradition that it must inevitably, and most certainly within the Christ's Hospital community, be prefixed by a capital "G."

Incidentally, at the risk of being a pain, it is reasonably certain that the forms Greater and Little Erasmus were named after Erasmus Smith (1711-1791) rather than the Dutch Erasmus. Smith was a great benefactor of many educational establishments, including Christ's Hospital. He made vast amounts of money during the Civil War and used his fortune to fund at least three grammar schools and more than 40 elementary schools in England and Ireland, as well as four chairs in Trinity College. However, as Erasmus Smith was almost certainly named in honour of the Dutchman, one could argue that the name of the forms at Christ's Hospital is indirectly attributable to Erasmus of Rotterdam as well, but we are getting into ever-deeper waters, and I will quit now!

[UserRemovedAccount]

As a PS to my previous entry may I draw DavebytheSea's attention to
http://www.christs-hospital.org.uk/cp-intro.html where the writer starts the G-word with a capital "G." And who uses it? One PCD Southern, that's who. Need I say more - except that DbtS is treading on very dangerous ground.

[DavebytheSea]

Ok! Ok! I capitulate! The weight of multiple Davids is against me together with the considerable weight of one RR.

From now on, I will forever spell grecian with a capital G

[Richard Ruck]

Ok! Ok! I capitulate! The weight of multiple Davids is against me together with the considerable weight of one RR.

From now on, I will forever spell grecian with a capital G

Actually, my middle name is David!

[englishangel]

so is mine (NOT)

[Great Plum]

As a PS to my previous entry may I draw DavebytheSea's attention to
http://www.christs-hospital.org.uk/cp-intro.html where the writer starts the G-word with a capital "G." And who uses it? One PCD Southern, that's who. Need I say more - except that DbtS is treading on very dangerous ground.

It is possible that PCD Southern PHD etc is merely following new convention...

[J.R.]

Ok! Ok! I capitulate! The weight of multiple Davids is against me together with the considerable weight of one RR.

From now on, I will forever spell grecian with a capital G

........ so don't mention capital punishment !

(Or should that be Capital Punishment ??? Or even perhaps upper-case punishment !)

[sport!]

Chambers Twentieth Century Dictionary, 1972 edition: Grecian - a senior boy of Christ's Hospital.

Capital G it is then.

[UserRemovedAccount]

Chambers Twentieth Century Dictionary, 1972 edition: Grecian - a senior boy of Christ's Hospital.

Presumably Chambers Twenty-First Century Dictionary will be amended to read: "Grecian - a senior boy or girl of Christ's Hospital"

I am surprised that englishangel did not pick that one up!!

David

P.S. Hey, Julian, I've cracked this quote/unquote business at last! Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

[englishangel]

Chambers Twentieth Century Dictionary, 1972 edition: Grecian - a senior boy of Christ's Hospital.

Presumably Chambers Twenty-First Century Dictionary will be amended to read: "Grecian - a senior boy or girl of Christ's Hospital"

I am surprised that englishangel did not pick that one up!!

David

P.S. Hey, Julian, I've cracked this quote/unquote business at last! Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks?

I did but as I don't have Chamber's any CenturyI didn't comment.

[Hendrik]

I have never believed that the majority opinion must necessarily be assumed always to be correct.

"There is no right or wrong, only popular opinion."

interestingly enough, i once found CH mentioned under the dictionary entry 'girdle' (hmm, OB on the editorial staff?). i forget which dictionary. possibly broadie too. any other entries people have found over the years (or when bored in second form english)?