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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by englishangel » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:07 pm

Girls, women are more prone to dyspraxia which is a problem with numbers .
Problem with numbers is dyscalculia. Dyspraxia is a problem with co-ordination/balance. Appalling handwriting (usually) and unable to roller skate, ride a bike, kick a ball. My younger son has it.
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by sejintenej » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:24 pm

englishangel wrote:
Girls, women are more prone to dyspraxia which is a problem with numbers .
Problem with numbers is dyscalculia. Dyspraxia is a problem with co-ordination/balance. Appalling handwriting (usually) and unable to roller skate, ride a bike, kick a ball. My younger son has it.
I stand corrected by my junior and better :D At least that is something I haven't had to face.



Jokingly, with appalling handwriting, do doctors and old men develop dyspraxia? Thinking back it took my younger son several years to learn to ride a bike and as for the other things you mention..... The diagnosis didn't mention that.
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by Wuppertal » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:01 am

A friend of mine happens to be dyspraxic, though he was only diagnosed about six months ago. His problem is organisation - always turning up late, forgetting obvious things, etc. Anyway, because of the dyspraxia, he now gets dispensation from the university and he is allowed an extra day or two to finish an assignment and an extra 10% time for an exam. Sometimes he obviously genuinely needs this extra time due to his problem, but he also freely admits that on many occasions he doesn't need any extra time and uses it to an unfair advantage over others to be able to go a couple of days over a deadline and so forth without being punished for it.

In short, I may not be popular for saying this, but I don't believe people should gain an unfair advantage of others because of a certain condition that they have. Obviously I fully support all necessary treatment to help them, but that should be aimed at levelling the playing field, not giving them an unfair advantage over others who don't have a condition. This is punishing everyone else - the crime that they have committed being to not have a condition. It's like affirmative action, which I oppose: if someone is at a disadvantage, steps should be taken to make sure that they are no longer at an unjustified disadvantage compared to the general population - but not that they are superior to them in sympathy at their previous suffering.

If someone had some money stolen, would it be fair if they were consequently legally entitled to go and steal some money from someone else? If someone was murdered, would it be acceptable if their next-of-kin was allowed to go and murder someone else to feel better?

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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by sejintenej » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:22 am

Wuppertal wrote:A friend of mine happens to be dyspraxic, though he was only diagnosed about six months ago.
but he also freely admits that on many occasions he doesn't need any extra time and uses it to an unfair advantage over others to be able to go a couple of days over a deadline and so forth without being punished for it.
This is a simple question of morality / immorality and he should have been brought up better (though in this day and age morality hardly exists)
Wuppertal wrote:In short, I may not be popular for saying this, but I don't believe people should gain an unfair advantage of others because of a certain condition that they have. Obviously I fully support all necessary treatment to help them, but that should be aimed at levelling the playing field, not giving them an unfair advantage over others who don't have a condition. This is punishing everyone else - the crime that they have committed being to not have a condition. It's like affirmative action, which I oppose: if someone is at a disadvantage, steps should be taken to make sure that they are no longer at an unjustified disadvantage compared to the general population - but not that they are superior to them in sympathy at their previous suffering.
I tried to make the point that these conditions are chronic and canot be cured. Yes, there are ways to help such people to fit into the world of the so-called "normal" but these are not fully effective - they only go part way. Thus by allowing say 10% extra time or other conditions in an exam the authorities are actually creating a level playing field. What the authorities try to do is exactly what your 5 - 7th lines call for.
I know that the concepts are difficult to comprehend but please accept that even what the authorities do to tryt to create that level playing field is not always enough. Think back to when you were at uni and consider your position if you simply could not take any notes of lectures, briefings etc and such notes were not available from the lecturer; that is the position some types of dyslexic are in.

Consider "The Duke" who is a real person. He has the use of one thumb and has a degree. Do you not think it reasonable for him to be allowed to use a PC in exams (he can't hold a pencil) and to have more time? OK so that is a different type of chronic disorder but has similar effects
Wuppertal wrote:If someone had some money stolen, would it be fair if they were consequently legally entitled to go and steal some money from someone else? If someone was murdered, would it be acceptable if their next-of-kin was allowed to go and murder someone else to feel better?
I can't comprehend how you can think that these are parallel situations
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by Wuppertal » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:46 am

With a physical condition it is obvious that special allowances need to be made otherwise it is literally impossible for the tasks to be completed.

But I think it is well-documented that there is a greyer area over the two aforementioned conditions - some people are labelled dyslexic when in reality they simply have difficulty with reading or spelling; while others genuinely have dyslexia but are not diagnosed and so lose out on potential help. The thing is, there are many people who have difficulty with reading, or spelling, or organisation, yet they are offered no sympathy whatsoever and are given no extra time in exams, or extra time for a deadline, just because they don't officially have dyslexia, when in reality they need this extra time just as much. I think everyone with these difficulties should be treated with equal care, not just those who have been diagnosed with a certain condition. It is also well-documented that some parents try their hardest to get their children diagnosed because they can't accept that they are not doing well at school, and they see the diagnosis as some kind of justification or excuse, even if it's not genuine. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of criticising dyslexic people - indeed I'm criticising the authorities for treating them with more priority than other people who have equal reading or spelling problems but who are being offered no help or sympathy whatsoever just because they haven't been given this label.

It is plain wrong that someone who has severe spelling difficulties, but not dyslexia, should be marked down or examined differently from someone who has severe spelling difficulties because of having dyslexia. At the end of the day, they both have the same problem, so they should be treated and allowed for in the same way.

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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by gma » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:26 am

Having stepped out of a system of teaching for young people who have failed within standard education systems, one of the first tests that were carried out was for dyslexia; I was staggered to find out how many of these students had it, but even more so to find out how many of them already knew but had not been officially diagnosed as that would require te school to put funding into helping them, - additionally there are many schoold who do not 'recognise' ADHD and dyspraxia for exactly the same reasons. It is far easier, and far more cost effective to place these children in undemanding classes and in detentions that have them disrupt mainstrream classes or God forbid, slow down the curriculum.

There are some very simple solutions to allow many, many not all, dyslexics operate very well in mainstream business environments, some as simple as fonts, screen and paper colours. There are training programmes around that seek to help dyspraxics and those with ADHD, however they are mainly privately run and funded and therefore pretty expensive for most parents, (DORE being one that springs to mind). This comes around to the debate going on on another thread with rgard to the charitable status of schools. School and education can never be successful with a 'one size fits all' methodolgy.

That all said, however, I know that there are those who are going to seek to use a disadvantage as an advanatage but that will always be the case in human nature and in multiple environments too, it's called laziness and has nothing to do with any reading, writing or learning challenges!
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by Wuppertal » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:32 pm

I was bullied by someone with ADHD. Because he had ADHD, he was never punished and so the bullying never stopped. Regardless of his condition, he still knew perfectly well right from wrong and he knew what he was doing was completely wrong.

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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by ben ashton » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:38 pm

ever consider punching him in the nose? might have assisted the conveyance of your displeasure :)
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by gma » Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:50 pm

I know that there are those who are going to seek to use a disadvantage as an advanatage but that will always be the case in human nature
My point exactly Wuppertal!!There are those who bully and abuse others who were themselves bullied or abused and there are those who chose not to continue the cycle. None of the syndromes in this thread are curable as mentioned in another post but it isn't about that, it's about how those around that person manage it and whether your GP is any good, or your school has a halfway decent budget or the parents are capable of researching and applying findings, the world will never be a perfect place as the dominant species are themselves so very unperfect.

It is difficult to paint the world in black and white instead of it's myriad shades of grey and as you go through life you will sometimes look back and wonder at the stances that you took both emotionally and intellectually. I wish you well on your journey!
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by englishangel » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:06 pm

My dyspraxic son is fortunately one of the sweetest, kindest people on the planet and certainly not co-ordinated enough to throw a punch (his twin sister did that for him). As stated finding help for him was difficult. He was put on a waiting list for Occupational Therapy help and after 3 years the therapist turned up for a half hour to give him exercises to improve his core stability. When she had finished she said he wasn't too bad and unlike many was confident and not at all shy. I said that was probably something to do with the 3 years of singing, dancing and acting lessons we had already paid for. (We thought they would help his co-ordination)
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by sejintenej » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:04 pm

gma wrote:Having stepped out of a system of teaching for young people who have failed within standard education systems, one of the first tests that were carried out was for dyslexia; I was staggered to find out how many of these students had it, but even more so to find out how many of them already knew but had not been officially diagnosed as that would require te school to put funding into helping them, - additionally there are many schoold who do not 'recognise' ADHD and dyspraxia for exactly the same reasons. It is far easier, and far more cost effective to place these children in undemanding classes and in detentions that have them disrupt mainstrream classes or God forbid, slow down the curriculum.

There are some very simple solutions to allow many, many not all, dyslexics operate very well in mainstream business environments, some as simple as fonts, screen and paper colours. There are training programmes around that seek to help dyspraxics and those with ADHD, however they are mainly privately run and funded and therefore pretty expensive for most parents, (DORE being one that springs to mind). This comes around to the debate going on on another thread with rgard to the charitable status of schools. School and education can never be successful with a 'one size fits all' methodolgy.

That all said, however, I know that there are those who are going to seek to use a disadvantage as an advanatage but that will always be the case in human nature and in multiple environments too, it's called laziness and has nothing to do with any reading, writing or learning challenges!
Thanks for that Gerrie. Couldn't have been better written.
To add a bit of meat, the Dyslexia Society reckons that 10% and perhaps as many as 15% of the population has some form of dyslexia. It isa that big a problem. My local council helps about 2 1/2 % of pupils - at least 7 1/2% and perhaps 12 1/2% of possible dyslexics are ingored / refused assistance. As Gerrie states, in a lot of cases they can be quickly and easily helped which cuts down the number whom require extended help.
In my son's case with three forms of dyslexia (after he dropped out of the first Uni with all the associated mental trauma - his siblngs are brilliant) Hertfordshire Uni accepted him on the condition that he attend their course for under-qualified students (he was actually qualified!) plus a few hours one-to-one dyslexia help and orientation. He came out top of that year on equal to equal exams! (ie no extra time etc). His secondary school teachers used him to teach "retarded" pupils, keeping him out of regular classes - they simply didn't know what "dyslexia" was, gave him no help even after diagnosis, and this was in the late 1980's

I came across one primary school where the headmaster actually said to parents "He will never account to anything so I am not wasting school resources on him. Of course he has to attend classes but he will not be helped and his work will not be marked"

There is a difficulty of diagnosis and degree. Diagnosis has to be done by suitably qualified people (some of whom simply don't give a written report because that could be presented to the local authority) and costs money - three figures plus in our case many miles of driving, none of which is refundable. Slight dyslexia (ie those forms which do not present very differently and also those other forms which the subject has already learned to cope with) are ignored but those people do desperately need simple moral support rather than the negative actions of fellow pupils and teachers.

Of course there is the problem of people claiming to have the condition - I assume the professionals can distinguish real form false

The current view is that dyslexics are outright failures, even thugs sometimes, an unnecessary expense and fit only for mental homes and to be kept out of public view. That is how nmany teachers view them despite all that thew Min of Ed tries to do. Of course, as Gerrie probably realises, many dyslexics are actually very very clever and have a real place to fill in society, principally in the arts (OK that last is my view) but the education system does not allow them the possibility.

I don't know CH's current take on this subject. I would love to think that they assume from day one that 10% of thier pupils are dyslexic, that they go out to iudentify them, that they then tailor one-to-one lessons for those pupils in addition to their normal lessons. Tha=t way they and we will know that such pupikls are being treatred as well as is possible.
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by gma » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:30 pm

Couldn't agree more David - look forward to more of your input on charitable status thread as there seems to be, outside this forum, a thought that says that 'public' schools and charitably funded or supported schools are somehow elitist on a social basis and having been at CH it couldn't be further from the truth. Having been damned with 'faint truth', schools such as CH are now being included in a sweeping generality of all selection schools and that includes religious schools. I have done some work with visually impaired children as part of the charity in which Iam involved, they too are banged into mainstraem schooling but it has absolutely no relevance to their needs, it is one of finance, these children struggle with homework, reading in class, communicating with teachers and peers etc etc and by the time they've caught on the class have moved on. The minute we get the specialised equipment (and I mean cheap laptops with zoom texta nd specialised reading magnifiers, nothing dramatic), their marks go up their achievments increase amazingly and their potential to contribute to society increases enormously. It was no different when I was teaching the apprenticeships, as David reinforced for me, most of these children are really bright but frequently badly behaved and hard to manage in class because there is no way for them to express or vent their frustrations, give them the tools and they change in days.

Special needs schools of all description are being swept up into this generalised 'elitist' category. It is the belief of 'the man' that all children should be treated equally - ridiculous statement - ridiculous ethos, it makes me spit teeth and I don't have children myself so how you parents out there deal with it, I do not know.
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by sejintenej » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:41 pm

gma wrote:Couldn't agree more David - look forward to more of your input on charitable status thread as there seems to be, outside this forum, a thought that says that 'public' schools and charitably funded or supported schools are somehow elitist on a social basis and having been at CH it couldn't be further from the truth. Having been damned with 'faint truth', schools such as CH are now being included in a sweeping generality of all selection schools and that includes religious schools. I have done some work with visually impaired children as part of the charity in which Iam involved, they too are banged into mainstraem schooling but it has absolutely no relevance to their needs, it is one of finance, these children struggle with homework, reading in class, communicating with teachers and peers etc etc and by the time they've caught on the class have moved on. The minute we get the specialised equipment (and I mean cheap laptops with zoom texta nd specialised reading magnifiers, nothing dramatic), their marks go up their achievments increase amazingly and their potential to contribute to society increases enormously. It was no different when I was teaching the apprenticeships, as David reinforced for me, most of these children are really bright but frequently badly behaved and hard to manage in class because there is no way for them to express or vent their frustrations, give them the tools and they change in days.

Special needs schools of all description are being swept up into this generalised 'elitist' category. It is the belief of 'the man' that all children should be treated equally - ridiculous statement - ridiculous ethos,
These people simply haven't a clue. They are clueless, mindbogglingly pig-higorant, mentally subnormal, nutcases. To give you an idea of their backing there was an BBC TV interview with a votor before a past general elecvtion which went along the lines of

Interviewer: "who will you be voting for?"

Flatcapped old codger: "Labour"

Interviewer: " why will you vote labour (something about "is it their policies ...... ") ?

Old codger: "Nah, I's a workman, a labourer, so ah votes labour"

They don't care a da** and from my current experience of the NHS they are more stupid than a mess of pigs sh1t. They think that Eton is identical to a special needs school and therefore should be taken over so that it's money can line their ......
Their only contact with and knowledge of dyslexics and other special needs pupils is when they want votes - and after the place has been thoroughly disinfected and the security wallas have ensured that the pupils cannot but sit still (nails through the genitals?)

Current experience of the NHS? A few years ago we took the local Hospital to the Ombudsman and won in spades; you might have heard of that woman in Maidstone where there were 90 + deaths from germs - her inbed partner was involved but has now been outed. I have a simple enquiry going on with the Department of Health which requires a simple yes/no answer. I eventually, well after the stipulated maximum delay, received a reply in absolute gobbledegook. It's not English or French or Spanish on Portuguese or Italian or Romanian or one of the Nordic languages (except I wouldn't recognise Sami) but my request for a translation has been ignored. For a yes or no it took 3 1/2 screens of English style characters (though of course those could have been transliterated from Yakut or Outer Mongolian or Maori or even some strange south seas language). Not fit for purpose is, ISTR, the official view.

A friend of ours is a special needs counsellor in an area of East London. Her boss, who is the only qualified person simply stays in her office or "goes to meetings" and doesn't treat patients . The stories I have heard about schools and councillors and care staff in the area are mind boggling. They wanted to sack her for refusing a large pay cut so her boss could get a rise; it went to arbitration, she won but she still lost money on the costs and there are ongoing costs - until she leaves. Yes - I understand your next phrase only too well!!!!!! (She is coming over here for an orgy in June - ten ripe nubile women and her - JR eat you heart out and be thankful you don't know who they are !!!)
gma wrote:it makes me spit teeth and I don't have children myself so how you parents out there deal with it, I do not know.
All too often the parents simply don't. They are taught that the schools know how to deal with all these problems and the schools tell them to keep their noses out of what they don't know about - "we know what we are doing" which is a load of cobb(you know - shoe menders). I suspect that this is partially the reason why there are so many young layabouts defacing our public places.

The county councils (who control the budgets) allow each school to have a specified number of problem children** for budgeting purposes. Anything over that and the headmaster is under suspicion for not controlling the school's finances properly and any shortfall has to come out of the pitiable amount set aside for outside coursework (field trips etc.) Of course this is the money which has to be used for assessment but since there is minimal such money then assessments cannot be carried out which helps reduce the need for money to be spent on dyslexics. We had to fight; eventually I think that Essex County Council was paying the princely sum of £5 per term to pay someone the cost of photocopying their lecture notes!
** which comes out at about 2 to 3 percent - ie one fifth of those in need).
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by gma » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:11 pm

These people simply haven't a clue. They are clueless, mindbogglingly pig-higorant, mentally subnormal, nutcases. To give you an idea of their backing there was an BBC TV interview with a votor before a past general elecvtion which went along the lines of

Interviewer: "who will you be voting for?"

Flatcapped old codger: "Labour"

Interviewer: " why will you vote labour (something about "is it their policies ...... ") ?

Old codger: "Nah, I's a workman, a labourer, so ah votes labour"
A good friend of ours voted Labour the first time they got in after the Conservatives in thelate 90's , we asked him why and he said: "It's only fair they get a turn" :?:
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Re: Trying to find some translating work

Post by sejintenej » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:56 pm

gma wrote: A good friend of ours voted Labour the first time they got in after the Conservatives in thelate 90's , we asked him why and he said: "It's only fair they get a turn" :?:
The trouble is that I beleive you.

Why the heck do you think so many intelligent people want to get out of Britain?
Over here we have seen a flood of Brits - and they are all intelligent people. One neighbour was head of one of the best known hospitals in the UK, a couple have built up £100million plus companies, there are writers, artists, ex-head teachers (several), business men controlling sectors of the UK economy and all glad to be out. What shocked me coming back this time was the results of the local elections; so many villages around here have been actively trying to get Brits on the local councils (even if we make up 5% of the population), simply because they recognise what those people can still offer - ideas, hard work, grit and determination. That said there is a widespread feeling not to get too closely involved so that we do not change a centuries old culture which we don't understand.

Russia had a policy of making emigrants pay for their education before granting an exit visa. Going back a while when British trained doctors, engineers and other professionals were emigrating as fast as the ships could take them to the US (mainly) Labour wanted to bring in the Russian system to stop them going. People think NuLab is extreme - it is compared to their predecessors even now that you have to tell Gordon which of the 97 positions in the Kama Sutra you prefer ...................(and 101 other personal sex likes and dislikes)
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