"UK terror threat now 'critical'"

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"UK terror threat now 'critical'"

Post by ben ashton » Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:12 pm

Cherish pity; lest you drive an angel from your door

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Post by Richard Ruck » Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:24 am

Seems an odd way to carry out an attack, but I suppose that anything is to be expected now.
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Post by midget » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:29 pm

Well done the bystander who floored the would-be murderer attacking the policeman.

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Post by Great Plum » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:18 pm

It shows that the terrorists won't stop at anything...
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Post by cj » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:41 pm

I know that we being exhorted to carry on as normal, and I don't live in London (or Glasgow now!) and have no idea as to the reality of the situation, but the whole thing makes me very nervous and a bit scared to be honest. We usually go up to London for a day trip and to see brothers when we are on holiday in Kent over the summer, but I shall now worry myself to death over going especially with the kids to think about. Ironically I never bothered during the 80s and 90s when the IRA were leaving bombs in bins all over London. I can remember being stuck in a tube tunnel while there was a security alert and thinking nothing of it, and on a other occasion having to walk to Victoria when the traffic was at a standstill only to find no mainline trains running home and just getting on and not worrying. I'm not sure what the difference is, or why I feel differently now. Does anyone else feel like that or do you all say s0d them and carry on regardless?
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Post by Mrs C. » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:01 pm

cj wrote:I know that we being exhorted to carry on as normal, and I don't live in London (or Glasgow now!) and have no idea as to the reality of the situation, but the whole thing makes me very nervous and a bit scared to be honest. We usually go up to London for a day trip and to see brothers when we are on holiday in Kent over the summer, but I shall now worry myself to death over going especially with the kids to think about. Ironically I never bothered during the 80s and 90s when the IRA were leaving bombs in bins all over London. I can remember being stuck in a tube tunnel while there was a security alert and thinking nothing of it, and on a other occasion having to walk to Victoria when the traffic was at a standstill only to find no mainline trains running home and just getting on and not worrying. I'm not sure what the difference is, or why I feel differently now. Does anyone else feel like that or do you all say s0d them and carry on regardless?
I`m sure having children makes a difference - I`d be worrying if either of mine were in London at the moment - but then who expected Glasgow to be a target? In which case you might just as well get on with things as normal because, as I see it, there`s very little the individual can do - apart from being a bit more vigilant perhaps. Que sera sera
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Post by Mid A 15 » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:22 pm

cj wrote:I know that we being exhorted to carry on as normal, and I don't live in London (or Glasgow now!) and have no idea as to the reality of the situation, but the whole thing makes me very nervous and a bit scared to be honest. We usually go up to London for a day trip and to see brothers when we are on holiday in Kent over the summer, but I shall now worry myself to death over going especially with the kids to think about. Ironically I never bothered during the 80s and 90s when the IRA were leaving bombs in bins all over London. I can remember being stuck in a tube tunnel while there was a security alert and thinking nothing of it, and on a other occasion having to walk to Victoria when the traffic was at a standstill only to find no mainline trains running home and just getting on and not worrying. I'm not sure what the difference is, or why I feel differently now. Does anyone else feel like that or do you all say s0d them and carry on regardless?
In my opinion the difference is in the mindset of the authorities.

What I'm about to write will probably come across as critical of those who have a difficult, thankless job but it is how I see it.

In the seventies when the IRA were bombing Pubs and shops and threatening tubes and trains we were vigilant but you didn't see hordes of men with guns in yellow fluorescent vests taping off everywhere you might want to go to.

The attitude was we won't let the b******* win and carry on as normal. I lived in Woolwich which had a large military presence back then and indeed The Kings Arms Pub was bombed (in 1974 if memory serves me right).

Despite this life continued more or less as normal. I think one would be less than honest if one was to claim that there wasn't a small fear at the back of your mind when out in Woolwich or Central London but there was a real determination not to be intimidated nevertheless.

Contrast that with the attitude nowadays. Yesterday you could not drop people off at Gatwick Airport by car! Yet politicians will still pop up on the box telling us that we must live our lives normally whilst in the next breath telling us that identity cards, something peacetime Britain has never had and a gross infringement of liberty and freedom, are essential to "save" us from terrorism! There seems a major contradiction there to my simple little mind!

Although the IRA Bombers were the lowest form of scum they did issue warnings more often than not. This Islamic lot seem hellbent on killing as many innocent people as possible. That may partially explain the different approach from the authorities, but in my opinion we should metaphorically say f*** them and not do the terrorists' job (creating terror!) for them by closing everything down on a whim and preventing innocent people going about their daily business.

Controversial maybe but my opinion having experienced living and working in areas that terrorists have targeted.
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Post by Great Plum » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:44 pm

As most of you know, I work in London and commute in every day - I don't let it bother me too much - otherwise I would never get into work...
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Post by J.R. » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:57 pm

Mr A. Hitler and Mr. H. Goering thought they would bomb us into submission and didn't.

What chance does a fundamentalist who only managed to set fire to himself honestly have ?

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Post by cj » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:26 pm

Mid A 15 wrote:That may partially explain the different approach from the authorities, but in my opinion we should metaphorically say f*** them and not do the terrorists' job (creating terror!) for them by closing everything down on a whim and preventing innocent people going about their daily business.
OK, so do the media have an influence in how the public perceive the situation? And is it any worse than the IRA mainland campaign? I caught the Glasgow car bomb on a news flash, cutting through BBC programming, with the BBC News 24 rolling news carrying the details. It all seemed much more awful, looking at the pictures of the car in flames and a burned man lying on the ground, considering that no-one else was injured. And I'm not convinced how helpful it is to have reporters spending hours speculating on what may be happening rather than waiting for an official disclosure from the police with whatever facts they may have. It seems to me that gory images and speculative headlines are unnecessary and go somewhere to giving the terrorists exactly what they want - international news coverage of inhumane acts, potentially feeding the minds of those who are disenfranchised or ripe for radicalisation.
Last edited by cj on Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Mid A 15 » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:58 pm

cj wrote:
Mid A 15 wrote:That may partially explain the different approach from the authorities, but in my opinion we should metaphorically say f*** them and not do the terrorists' job (creating terror!) for them by closing everything down on a whim and preventing innocent people going about their daily business.
OK, so do the media have an influence in how the public perceive the situation? And is it any worse than the IRA mainland campaign? I caught the Glasgow car bomb on a news flash, cutting through BBC programming, with the BBC News 24 rolling news carrying the details. It all seemed much more awful, looking at the pictures of the car in flames and a burned man lying on the ground, considering that no-one else was injured. And I'm not convinced how helpful it is to have reporters spending hours speculating on what may be happening rather than waiting for an official disclosure from the police with whatever facts they may have. It seems to me that gory images and speculative headlines are unnecessary and go somewhere to giving the terrorists exactly what they want - international new coverage of inhumane acts, potentially feeding the minds of those who are disenfranchised or ripe for radicalisation.
I agree with you the media do these days (unintentionally one hopes!) help the terrorists in the way they report incidents.

The warped minds that succumb to that sort of thing will perceive the burning terrorist as a would be martyr. Why give him the oxygen of that type of publicity?

Yes there is a duty to report the facts but not sensationalise and glorify them.

You are perhaps too young to know or remember that IRA members and Sinn Fein politicians were not allowed to be interviewed in the media at the height of their bombing campaign.

That arguably was a step too far in a free society but there is a middle way that fairly represents the situation without glorifying it in my opinion.
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Post by cstegerlewis » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:18 pm

When there were a number of atrocities in the 80's (and for that matter major incidents such as the King's Cross Tube fire) it popped up on the news bulletins every hour or half hour on the radio, and then the programming in between was relatively normal. On the TV it was extremely rare for anything to stop the normal schedule, other than a 30second news flash.

Now we have hald a dozen 24 hour news TV services and several talk radio stations that will cut all their programme in order to compete with each other in order to keep people watching and not switching over. Any sort of cogent analysis is overridden by ill-informed speculation or blatant guessing, prefaced with such catch all words "allegedly" or "our sources say". Hence everything seems hugely worse than it was. I won't even start on the web coverage!!!

I agree that the IRA at least had the wherewithal to issue warnings most of the time, and certainly towards the end, the use of threats and warnings were much more effective than the actual bombings (eg closing the motorways over several weeks leading up to the 1992 election), but the statistical probability of being caught up in this is very slight, so don't let it get in your way.

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Post by englishangel » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:23 pm

Yes cj you do worry more when you have children.

In Canterbury on Saturday we were walking along the city wall which would be Helen's way home to her digs and all I could think of was how low the walls were and how she could fall over them.

Of course I remember what I was like at university :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Post by cj » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:37 pm

englishangel wrote:Yes cj you do worry more when you have children.

In Canterbury on Saturday we were walking along the city wall which would be Helen's way home to her digs and all I could think of was how low the walls were and how she could fall over them.

Of course I remember what I was like at university :oops: :oops: :oops:
I was born just outside Canterbury and consequently it was our main place of shopping, school etc. When I was a little girl, I had this picture in my head that Jesus had in fact not died on the cross, but had fallen down the city walls, quite near the Dane John, grazed his back on the sharp flints and died. It's an obvious conclusion to draw. I'm sure your daughter will be much more careful!

I guess that is the trouble with being a parent, that you are aware of every pitfall that lies in their path. I used to walk home from clubs in Glasgow on my own in the middle of the night. Asian men would hiss because they assumed you were a prostitute. Wearing a (fake) fur coat wouldn't have helped - fur coat, no proverbials. My parents would have gone spare if they knew, and I have no doubt that when my 2 are off on their own they will be doing just the same thing. We are better off not knowing and imagining that they are at home, knitting and enjoying a small, sweet sherry.
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Post by sejintenej » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:34 pm

Mid A 15 wrote:
cj wrote:I know that we being exhorted to carry on as normal, and I don't live in London (or Glasgow now!) and have no idea as to the reality of the situation, but the whole thing makes me very nervous and a bit scared to be honest. We usually go up to London for a day trip and to see brothers when we are on holiday in Kent over the summer, but I shall now worry myself to death over going especially with the kids to think about. Ironically I never bothered during the 80s and 90s when the IRA were leaving bombs in bins all over London. I can remember being stuck in a tube tunnel while there was a security alert and thinking nothing of it, and on a other occasion having to walk to Victoria when the traffic was at a standstill only to find no mainline trains running home and just getting on and not worrying. I'm not sure what the difference is, or why I feel differently now. Does anyone else feel like that or do you all say s0d them and carry on regardless?
In my opinion the difference is in the mindset of the authorities.

What I'm about to write will probably come across as critical of those who have a difficult, thankless job but it is how I see it.

In the seventies when the IRA were bombing Pubs and shops and threatening tubes and trains we were vigilant but you didn't see hordes of men with guns in yellow fluorescent vests taping off everywhere you might want to go to.

The attitude was we won't let the b******* win and carry on as normal. I lived in Woolwich which had a large military presence back then and indeed The Kings Arms Pub was bombed (in 1974 if memory serves me right).

Despite this life continued more or less as normal. I think one would be less than honest if one was to claim that there wasn't a small fear at the back of your mind when out in Woolwich or Central London but there was a real determination not to be intimidated nevertheless.

Contrast that with the attitude nowadays. Yesterday you could not drop people off at Gatwick Airport by car! Yet politicians will still pop up on the box telling us that we must live our lives normally whilst in the next breath telling us that identity cards, something peacetime Britain has never had and a gross infringement of liberty and freedom, are essential to "save" us from terrorism! There seems a major contradiction there to my simple little mind!

Although the IRA Bombers were the lowest form of scum they did issue warnings more often than not. This Islamic lot seem hellbent on killing as many innocent people as possible. That may partially explain the different approach from the authorities, but in my opinion we should metaphorically say f*** them and not do the terrorists' job (creating terror!) for them by closing everything down on a whim and preventing innocent people going about their daily business.

Controversial maybe but my opinion having experienced living and working in areas that terrorists have targeted.
I don't find that controversial. My ex-offices were destroyed by the St Mary Axe bomb and again by the Bishopsgate bomb. True we didn't wear fluorescent jackets but a lot of work went on in the background just so that the general public a) could continue to work even if their place of work was destroyed, b) to minimise casualties (if there were to be any), c) to prevent bombs going off (at least in sensitive places).

The media were content to let us get on with it without demanding to know the whys and wherefores so that their articles could help the "enemy". Not so now.

You mention the so-called warnings fom the IRA but don't mention the myriad of other organisations then operating, many of whom were potentially more dangerous.

The UK is a big place and the biggest lorry bomb has a maximum potential injury range of under 400 metres; the chances of being caught up in an explosion are pretty slight. I suggest that the danger of being caught up in a rail derailment which has fatal consequences are greater - and that is pretty negligible.

In London there are far greater dangers than from bombs - even crossing the street - and some of the worst are unknown to the working person. Be assured that you will not be injured by a terrorist bomb and it is unlikely that you will even be affected.

In all that my only worry / regret was for heart patients at St Bart's Hospital. An ex-army PT instructor called Al Murray set up a gym in the City which specialised in treating people with injuries (including myself and many top athletes) but his speciality was working with St Barts doctors to rehabilitate patients who had suffered heart attacks. Nobody was injured but the IRA destroyed everything he had worked to acheive.

I agree entirely with the suggested sentiment that the media should ignore all attacks totally; like the IRA these terrorists want to create fear but if people don't hear about attacks then the Muslims will have failed; a simple cheap solution. As for ID cards, I have one - and a genuine UK one at that. I even know my ID number (but not my national insurance number). Dead simple to forge and when the new ones are issued are they going to be electronically checked against the national database every 3 minutes? What about the Muslims working in the sensitive areas who will be able to create fictitious IDs for their mates? Over here in France people have ID cards and they seem to have two practical uses - evidence of identity when you give the supermarket a cheque for the groceries and (occasionally) evidence of ID when you go into Spain for cheap booze. ID cards will not help the fight against renegade muslims not help the vast majority of Muslims who are law abiding.
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