Politics

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, and is NON CH related - chat about the weather, or anything else that takes your fancy.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
jhopgood
Button Grecian
Posts: 1760
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:26 pm
Real Name: John Hopgood
Location: Valencia
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Politics

Post by jhopgood » Sun May 20, 2018 9:58 pm

How many “Western” countries are not in the same situation you have just described?
Barnes B 25 (59 - 66)

sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej » Mon May 21, 2018 2:45 pm

rockfreak wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 8:26 pm
The reason young people are buying loads of consumer stuff is that they get it on tick. This wouldn't have been allowed when we were younger. You were only allowed two and a half times your annual salary for a mortgage and you had to have an argument with your bank manager just to get a modest overdraft.
Very true BUT the argument with your bank manager was seldom as frightening as you seem to suggest - remember I have been there. Bank managers had a lot of leeway - I will never forget the customer in Sussex, a publican, who was always up to his overdraft limit of £17,000. Eventually the manager took him to task and controlled his spending. Nine months later he, the publican, had a deposit !!!!!!of £17,000 and no overdraft. The manager was truly a Friend to his customers. These days that would be illegal - ta muchly labour.
It was Thatcher and Lawson who deregulated finance and started hard-selling people idiotic amounts of credit from 1986 onwards. It's all very well people saying that you don't have to avail yourself of these siren voices.

Thatcher and Lawson did and said absolutely nothing to persuade people to assume large debts - get your facts right. That comes down to poor parenting and poor teaching about irresponsibility and if you persist I will point to very specific teachers. . Those whoi fail pay their debts on time should be bankrupted, their names published in the London Gazette so their crime is open and public so everyone knows who the naughties are. My sons's job is to protect his company against fraudsters and the latest from Brussels makes it impossible to read who has fraud convictions - **** Brusssels for interfering yet again. (Mr Moderator, I know that upsets you but I really mean that word!!!!!)

David: be thankful that Microsoft has deleted the rest of your post; I had a long list of examples to show that I disagree with your views.

Brussels has done much to emasculate Britain. This CAN be reversed but Labour's refusal to take the necessary steps post Brexit mean that it is highly unlikely that Britain can rival the far eastern nations economically again.
Last edited by sejintenej on Mon May 21, 2018 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
‘So, still happy you voted for my namesake who took away your health insurance, raised your taxes and should turn out to be a mental patient?’

sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej » Mon May 21, 2018 2:54 pm

jhopgood wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 9:58 pm
How many “Western” countries are not in the same situation you have just described?
I would say the USA is in exactly that situation. Of the few countries where I have worked I would exclude all exept PERHAPS Spain. I cannot speak for others.
‘So, still happy you voted for my namesake who took away your health insurance, raised your taxes and should turn out to be a mental patient?’

rockfreak
Grecian
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:31 pm
Real Name: David Redshaw
Location: Gravesend, Kent
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Mon May 21, 2018 8:21 pm

The countries that got into trouble in and after 2007 (Northern Rock first, in the UK, October 2007, if I remember rightly - Northern Rock had been a stable building society before the Tories under John Major started encouraging demutualisation) and then the US, Iceland, Spain and Ireland. All these countries had in common slack banking and lending rules and a fetish for house buying and speculation. When I mentioned the global financial crisis some time ago Dr Scuffil in Germany posted: "What crisis? We didn't feel it here".

sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej » Tue May 22, 2018 3:43 pm

David; be thankful that the, Forum deleted my blow by blow account as to why you are totally wrong and misleading readers. I have already given the true facts behind Northern Rock, the breaches of banking secrecy by your beloved leaders and its comparison with the Secondary Banking Crisis whist your references to the US and Ic eland are without foundation
‘So, still happy you voted for my namesake who took away your health insurance, raised your taxes and should turn out to be a mental patient?’

rockfreak
Grecian
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:31 pm
Real Name: David Redshaw
Location: Gravesend, Kent
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Wed May 23, 2018 5:10 pm

Banker Brown suggests that the Forum has deleted part of his post, and maybe it is this that is causing him to rage in impotent fury. I'm interested to know how all this works since I also missed the original posts by aliburns and the first I knew of them was that there was a long sequence saying "deleted". I get on the site most nights so don't miss much but this seems to suggest that JTG and JR are there pretty much 24/7 checking for unsuitable posts. What are the categories? (a) Outright lies about someone? (b) Libel? (c) Metaphorical Barnes Wallis bouncing bombs? (d) Besmirching the name of the religious, royal and ancient foundation? (e) Posting stuff that indicates you've gone completely bonkers and need to be sectioned? I must say that the moderators are rather more on the case than Zuckerberg and his friends at Facebook.

User avatar
Mid A 15
Button Grecian
Posts: 3019
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 1:38 pm
Real Name: Claude Rains
Location: The Patio Of England (Kent)
Has thanked: 69 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Politics

Post by Mid A 15 » Wed May 23, 2018 8:56 pm

rockfreak wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 5:10 pm
Banker Brown suggests that the Forum has deleted part of his post, and maybe it is this that is causing him to rage in impotent fury. I'm interested to know how all this works since I also missed the original posts by aliburns and the first I knew of them was that there was a long sequence saying "deleted". I get on the site most nights so don't miss much but this seems to suggest that JTG and JR are there pretty much 24/7 checking for unsuitable posts. What are the categories? (a) Outright lies about someone? (b) Libel? (c) Metaphorical Barnes Wallis bouncing bombs? (d) Besmirching the name of the religious, royal and ancient foundation? (e) Posting stuff that indicates you've gone completely bonkers and need to be sectioned? I must say that the moderators are rather more on the case than Zuckerberg and his friends at Facebook.
I'm fairly sure that Ali chose to delete his own posts rather than any intervention by the moderators.
Ma A, Mid A 65 -72

sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej » Tue May 29, 2018 6:10 pm

rockfreak wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:21 pm
The countries that got into trouble in and after 2007 (Northern Rock first, in the UK, October 2007, if I remember rightly - Northern Rock had been a stable building society before the Tories under John Major started encouraging demutualisation) and then the US, Iceland, Spain and Ireland. All these countries had in common slack banking and lending rules and a fetish for house buying and speculation. When I mentioned the global financial crisis some time ago Dr Scuffil in Germany posted: "What crisis? We didn't feel it here".
Let us hope that this attempt to reply to your post does not dissappear into the wide blue ether like the last one. Note; it went from my laptop but didn't reach the thread - no blame on the moderators.

Northern Rock; Long ago in the mists of time building societies were allowed to lend by way of morgage only the money peeps deposited with them. Thus they had to wait for scheduled repayments before they could finance someone's hope of buying a house because the whole inmdustry was lending to the max. Poor labourites couldn't buy houses (just as poor blues couldn't) At the same time there were funds slushing around in other markets without borrowers to use them.
The government loosened the rules a bit which allowed more poor people to buy houses instead of doling out to rich lessors.

At this point the computer gremlins struck yet again but I was prepared!!!!


There is a concept in banking along the lines of "X percent of current account balances will remain in the bank for A weeks and Y percent for B weeks". (Actually the figures are far more complex, actuarily derived). Thus a part of the money on current accounts can safely be lent for longer than overnight, the actual period being well known and approved by the Old Lady.
What Northern Rock did was to lend long term and then fund themselves in the market for appropriate long fixed periods afterwards. This was a dangerous practice and the banks strongly disapproved up to the stage when they would not refinance NR.

Going back to the seventies and the Secondary Banking Crisis about twenty banks were collapsed one weekend and the B of E arranged for their customers to wake up on the Monday morning with their accounts and balances with the major banks and the secondary banks dead in the water. All hush hush and there was no panic.

In the case of NR some politicians decided to breach secrecy and prevent an orderly takeover. Of course that gave them political capital though I cannot say that they broke secrecy in order to make themselves look good / the other side look bad. Of course that caused panic!!!!! and the entire industry was besmirched - perhaps that was intended.

The US, Spain Iceland and Ireland were totally different cases and unrelated to NR.
In the US the problem was about morgages but very different - they were giving 110%+ morgages without getting confirmation of borrowers' income and in many cases false income statements were given to lenders. Borrowers couldn't repay so the landers forced sales of the morgaged property and the number of properties went haywire so values fell dramatically. Then good borrowers found themselves in negative equity and whole neighbourhoods fell into dereliction. Morgage compamies failed.

Ireland - everyone was financing a building boom without having buyers for the completed properties. EU restrictions didn't help.

Iceland; one major Icelandic bank in London was collecting deposits and crazy rate of interest - they couldn't lend at rates approaching the rates of interest they were paying. Blame the Icelandic banking authorities bcause everyone with any sense knew and was warned to keep clear. Incidentally a government bank from a country you didn't name was doing the same but I suspect racism stopped them from being so "successful". (I had blacked both banks a year or more beforehand)

Spain; sorry, I was not up with what happened there in any detail - I just had a bad feeling just as I expected the failure of Ambrosiano a decade before.

Crisis in Germany? What abut Herstadt? I was in there from day one and knew the pressure put on the Bundesbank. That was a ballsup betwen Frankfurt and Dusseldorf authorities.

Yes - some lending officers did do stupid things but the vast majority (and the banks where I worked) kept strict control and were not affected.
‘So, still happy you voted for my namesake who took away your health insurance, raised your taxes and should turn out to be a mental patient?’

dsmg
UF (Upper Fourth)
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:55 pm
Real Name: daniel
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Politics

Post by dsmg » Tue May 29, 2018 10:46 pm

I find it very hard to believe that Ali deleted his own posts, especially as he was warned several times and then all his posts were deleted. Looks like censorship to me.
Play up Pompey!

User avatar
Mid A 15
Button Grecian
Posts: 3019
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 1:38 pm
Real Name: Claude Rains
Location: The Patio Of England (Kent)
Has thanked: 69 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Politics

Post by Mid A 15 » Wed May 30, 2018 10:25 am

dsmg wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 10:46 pm
I find it very hard to believe that Ali deleted his own posts, especially as he was warned several times and then all his posts were deleted. Looks like censorship to me.
I said it was my belief. I am not here often enough to be 100% sure.

However the scenario I THINK could have happened is that the moderators deleted or moderated one or more of his posts that they deemed too specific about historic events on the relevant thread (s). Ali then chose to delete his remaining posts from all threads.

Why would the moderators delete posts relating to Old Blues playing representative rugby and the history of OBRFC for example?

Whatever happened it's a shame and I hope Ali eventually finds his way back as I for one find his contributions interesting.
Ma A, Mid A 65 -72

rockfreak
Grecian
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:31 pm
Real Name: David Redshaw
Location: Gravesend, Kent
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Wed May 30, 2018 8:25 pm

There have been a couple of occasions in the past when I've deleted my own stuff but usually when I've put something up after two or three glasses of wine and then thought: "Um, I'm not sure that was a good idea." Mind you, considering some of the rambling, incoherent old cobblers that turns up on the site, I don't know why I'm being so shy.

Avon
Deputy Grecian
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:39 pm
Real Name: Ed Bell
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Politics

Post by Avon » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:46 pm

rockfreak wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 8:25 pm
There have been a couple of occasions in the past when I've deleted my own stuff but usually when I've put something up after two or three glasses of wine and then thought: "Um, I'm not sure that was a good idea." Mind you, considering some of the rambling, incoherent old cobblers that turns up on the site, I don't know why I'm being so shy.
That’s almost worse. You mean that the conceited, solipsistic and inaccurate cant you post is actually what’s left behind after you’ve looked at it a second time?

sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Politics

Post by sejintenej » Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:42 am

rockfreak wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 8:21 pm
. When I mentioned the global financial crisis some time ago Dr Scuffil in Germany posted: "What crisis? We didn't feel it here".
Just realised that when I replied to the Freak I omitted something important: The facts relating to the Herstadt crisis and failure were covered up and subject to strict secrecy which, as far as I know, continues to this day.
‘So, still happy you voted for my namesake who took away your health insurance, raised your taxes and should turn out to be a mental patient?’

rockfreak
Grecian
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:31 pm
Real Name: David Redshaw
Location: Gravesend, Kent
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Politics

Post by rockfreak » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:12 pm

Went on the Anti-Brexit march in London today. About 100,000 there I reckon. Most of the banners bigging up the fact hat we'd been lied to and only another referendum nearer to Brexit will be the answer. Right on cue Airbus and BMW put their heads above the parapet and voiced their concerns. How will CH fare if we jump off the cliff next March with no deal? Where will the money and bursaries come from? The country will be consigned to third world status overnight. Perhaps the school will be taken over completely by Russian oligarchs for their sons and daughters (after all, heritage and tradition will be all we've got left) and instead of playing Sussex by the Sea the band will play them in at lunchtime to.....er, well, what? The Internationale won't do since Russia is not supposed to be communist any longer. It's hard to find a stirring anthem depicting a nasty centralised autocracy with Thatcherite free-market tendencies.

Foureyes
Grecian
Posts: 721
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:26 am
Real Name: David
Location: England
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 64 times

Re: Politics

Post by Foureyes » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:39 am

I disagree totally with rockfreak, but, first I should say where I am coming from. I speak and read German (perhaps not as well as I used to, but enough to get by). I enjoy German poetry. I have lived in Germany for seven years, mixed with the local community, had good German friends, and travelled extensively in the country. To cap all that my great-great grandfather was German, from Pinnow in Mecklenburg-Strelitz, to be precise and his father fought under Blucher at Waterloo. I had a one month exchange visit in Austria. I have lived in Belgium/Netherlands for three years. I have travelled in Cyprus, France and Italy. I have thought deeply about Brexit and discussed it calmly and unemotionally with others. I think, therefore, that I can claim to have given the matter due and reasonable consideration, as a result of which I totally support Brexit.
David :shock:

Post Reply