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Politics

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:06 pm
by rockfreak
I sometimes do direct action with UK Uncut in London. Are there any other OB Uncutters out there (apart from Mark Thomas)? All great fun - occupying premises and blocking the traffic in central London. Bring on the revolution
Rockfreak (aged 70)

Re: Politics

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:23 pm
by Avon
Blocking the traffic? Ooooh how radical.

Are you sure UK Uncut isn't a typo?

Re: Politics

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:40 pm
by rockfreak
Avon wrote:Blocking the traffic? Ooooh how radical.

Are you sure UK Uncut isn't a typo?
No. Is Ed Bell a typo? I was being partly facetious in case you hadn't guessed. Numbers in the street bringing things to a halt is better than doing nothing. I'm interested to see what OBs think about politics these days.

Re: Politics

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:26 pm
by Avon
rockfreak wrote:
Avon wrote:Blocking the traffic? Ooooh how radical.

Are you sure UK Uncut isn't a typo?
No. Is Ed Bell a typo? I was being partly facetious in case you hadn't guessed. Numbers in the street bringing things to a halt is better than doing nothing. I'm interested to see what OBs think about politics these days.
Personally, I think we should be a republic and bin the Monarchy when E2R carks it. I think we should also have a far more mature model of democracy and stop the conceit of exporting our vaunted and over-esteemed political system to countries that laugh when our politicians behave like children at the ballot box and crooks when they think nobody is looking. I think we should be able to sack MPs when they underperform and jail them when they steal.

I'd introduce the 50% tax rate and sack the Lords. I agree that tax avoidance is an issue but am capable of more subtlety than vogueish dicks wearing V is for Vendetta masks or stopping traffic - some of the vehicles highly likely to contain non-tax avoiders.

Re: Politics

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:33 pm
by DavidRawlins
When monarchies end, or are overthrown, usually there is a dictatorship within a
few years.
Examples
England Cromwell
France Napoleon
Germany Hitler
Russia Lenin
Greece The colonels
Spain Franco
There are a lot of other cases. It is probably best to stick with what we have got.

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:16 am
by michael scuffil
Or as Milton put it: New presbyter is but old priest writ large. (I.e. revolutions make things worse.)

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:45 pm
by rockfreak
Actually I wasn't advocating violent revolution - all social change in this country be it human rights, workers rights, franchise etc, has started with movements outside parliament and, assuming it has public support, it gets onto the statute books sometime later (when the politicians have finished looking over their shoulders to check how many of their constituents they can afford to offend). The Suffragettes were incredibly violent and disruptive by the way. For impressive civil disobedience, think the velvet revolutions of Eastern Europe. This is the trouble; you need large numbers of people to come out and stay out. I'm really aiming these thoughts at my generation, the war babies and baby boomers. We had all the advantages, yet this year's school leavers, unless they go to the top universities and professions, will have fewer chances and may struggle. The unofficial CH website is great fun but it's a bit of a navel-gazing nostalgia fest. So pleased we've got something with a bit of edge going. By the way, two essential books when you've finished your Daily Mails; The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein, and 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism by Ha Joon Chang.
David Redshaw, Prep B and Col B 1952 - 1960

Re: Politics

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:05 pm
by DavidRawlins
The problem with a republic is who is head of state, and what powers they have. Most have considerable powers; however in Germany the president is a bit of a nonentity.
In Richard Garnetts short stories he describes a medieval republic in Italy who elected Virgil as president. If a presidential response was required they consuted his works, maybe with a pin. Do you fancy Shakespear as President?

Re: Politics

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:11 am
by Foureyes
Can anyone explain why this is on the "General Chat - CH Stuff" thread? Old Blues can have whatever views they like and discuss them whenever and with whom they wish, but this is not the right place to do so. I suggest the Moderator moves it.
David :shock:

Re: Politics

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:55 am
by J.R.
David:

On reflection, I see your point. I wasn't sure if the original poster was an OB and liking himself to the brilliant Mark Thomas. Probably not !

Therefore, I have moved it here, as suggested.

Re: Politics

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:04 pm
by William
Since the message formerly in this space concerned CH it will be moved to another thread called 'Politics at CH'. I can find no way to delete that previous message (can it be done?) so this explanation is left in its place.

Re: Politics

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:10 pm
by rockfreak
Avon wrote:
rockfreak wrote:
Avon wrote:Blocking the traffic? Ooooh how radical.

Are you sure UK Uncut isn't a typo?
No. Is Ed Bell a typo? I was being partly facetious in case you hadn't guessed. Numbers in the street bringing things to a halt is better than doing nothing. I'm interested to see what OBs think about politics these days.
Personally, I think we should be a republic and bin the Monarchy when E2R carks it. I think we should also have a far more mature model of democracy and stop the conceit of exporting our vaunted and over-esteemed political system to countries that laugh when our politicians behave like children at the ballot box and crooks when they think nobody is looking. I think we should be able to sack MPs when they underperform and jail them when they steal.

I'd introduce the 50% tax rate and sack the Lords. I agree that tax avoidance is an issue but am capable of more subtlety than vogueish dicks wearing V is for Vendetta masks or stopping traffic - some of the vehicles highly likely to contain non-tax avoiders.
Name the subtlety you're more capable of?

Re: Politics

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:09 pm
by Avon
rockfreak wrote:
Name the subtlety you're more capable of?
Pick a cause you don't like. Then:

Define the discussion so you can control it. Dominate the main media channels.
Marginalise and belittle the views of the unwanted: apply logic; rhetoric and satire.
Create false associations with other unpopular causes.
Tax, legislate and outmode the activity/pastime/group you dislike.
Embrace, appease and homogenise groups that roughly align. Discard or neutralise them later.
Create radicals. Infiltrate and agitate their groups. Encourage these groups to commit acts that disenfranchise them from the lumpenproletariat.
Call the radicals out. Neutralise or kill them, remaining heroes in the eyes of the people.
Rewrite history. It didn't happen like that.

Re: Politics

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:30 pm
by rockfreak
Avon wrote:
rockfreak wrote:
Name the subtlety you're more capable of?
Pick a cause you don't like. Then:

Define the discussion so you can control it. Dominate the main media channels.
Marginalise and belittle the views of the unwanted: apply logic; rhetoric and satire.
Create false associations with other unpopular causes.
Tax, legislate and outmode the activity/pastime/group you dislike.
Embrace, appease and homogenise groups that roughly align. Discard or neutralise them later.
Create radicals. Infiltrate and agitate their groups. Encourage these groups to commit acts that disenfranchise them from the lumpenproletariat.
Call the radicals out. Neutralise or kill them, remaining heroes in the eyes of the people.
Rewrite history. It didn't happen like that.
I should perhaps explain that the really disruptive numbers we've staged in the public street have been in alliance with the disabled activists, against the Bedroom Tax and the Cuts to Legal Aid. The actual Anti-Tax Avoidance numbers have featured invasions of Top Shop, Vodaphone, several banks and Starbucks. The last was a success, they agreed to pay some (not all) tax. Also the picketing and occupation of the premises of the hated ATOS saw them finally throw in the towel to the DWP.

Re: Politics

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:56 pm
by anniexf
I'm pleased to see Rockfreak's posts about campaigning. Of course cynics can sit on their fat **ses and take the p*ss, but at 70 I have seen enough cheating, lying and general nastiness among the rich and powerful over the years at the expense of the rest, to have joined the group 38 Degrees. I have nothing to lose, but my grandchildren may even gain from my tiny contribution. Hats off to you, Rockfreak, for actually DOING something. Ignore the sneers and carry on.