Identification.

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J.R.
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Identification.

Post by J.R. »

Just thought I'd add MY point of view at the age of nearly 72.

I don't have a pass-port. I have no need for or want one. I have no wish to leave the UK.

I was forced to relinquish my FULL UK driving licence after suffering a stroke and reaching 70 years of age.

I have been heavily involved with animal rights and pedigree cat breeding and showing for many years so here is my answer to the people in the UK who don't want to carry bundles of ID.

Double Micro-Chip every UK citizen then the problem would be solved. No need for paper ID.

Comments on a Euro questionaire to.....
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.
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Re: Identification.

Post by sejintenej »

Because I was allowed to sign documents on behalf of my employers I had to register my signature with a public registry in Rio. This had to be accompanied by my ID number.
I had a problem; my passport number gets changed every 10 years, my NHS number was changed to something I don't know and is so strange I couldn't remember it (damn yanks) and I never know my National Insurance number. So what number identifies me for my entire life and I was compelled to remember?

My national identity card number of course! Pity the UK authorities confiscated that.
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Re: Identification.

Post by jhopgood »

Very much like David, I have had my signature registered in various countries around the world.
I have an ID number for Spain, but not an ID card, as it is assumed that my country of origin has one, and I should use that. Fortunately I have a driving licence and this will do, when required.
My wife has problems in the UK as she does not drive, and does not appear on utility bills with a UK address. Fortunately the girl at the local library was very pragmatic and she now has a bus pass, which helps.
As soon as one registers anything on the internet, the providers have your identity, and a whole lot more.
Getting a card, the size of a credit card, to carry around, seems no problem to me. Especially as government authorities seem incapable of cross referencing databases, except on a one off basis.
Rather than worrying about Big Brother, I am in favour of making life easier, which an id card would do. Big Brother has already arrived so learn to live with it.
The only country I have lived in which has two id cards, is Argentina, which has a residence card, which goes on your Argentine passport, and an id card (cedula) issued by the local police, which goes on your driving licence. It cross references to the residency card. It's a hassle if one changes residency , which is registered on the residency card, and if you move to a different province, which requires a new "cedula". Never did it so not sure how that would work.
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Re: Identification.

Post by Katharine »

Another here who has no problem with an ID card, I’ve had one in various countries and it certainly made life easier there. I did like being registered as a Guru!
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Re: Identification.

Post by sejintenej »

Katharine wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:57 am Another here who has no problem with an ID card, I’ve had one in various countries and it certainly made life easier there. I did like being registered as a Guru!
I had to laugh when I read the word Gnu :D :D :D :D
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Re: Identification.

Post by graham »

Hang on a minute. I haven't lived in the UK for 14 years now, but are you all saying that there is still no such thing as a government issued ID card? When I first moved to the US, I didn't drive but it was incredibly easy to stroll to the local Department of Motor Vehicles and wait several hours (just like every one else) to be issued an official photo ID that I could use for air travel, buying beer etc. It made life so much easier.

No such thing in the UK? Wow!
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Re: Identification.

Post by Avon »

graham wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:32 pm Hang on a minute. I haven't lived in the UK for 14 years now, but are you all saying that there is still no such thing as a government issued ID card? When I first moved to the US, I didn't drive but it was incredibly easy to stroll to the local Department of Motor Vehicles and wait several hours (just like every one else) to be issued an official photo ID that I could use for air travel, buying beer etc. It made life so much easier.

No such thing in the UK? Wow!
Nope. There's a legion of stout yeomen for whom this is anathema.
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Re: Identification.

Post by sejintenej »

Avon wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:05 pm
graham wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:32 pm Hang on a minute. I haven't lived in the UK for 14 years now, but are you all saying that there is still no such thing as a government issued ID card? When I first moved to the US, I didn't drive but it was incredibly easy to stroll to the local Department of Motor Vehicles and wait several hours (just like every one else) to be issued an official photo ID that I could use for air travel, buying beer etc. It made life so much easier.

No such thing in the UK? Wow!
Nope. There's a legion of stout yeomen for whom this is anathema.
To add to Avon's correct reply the proposed ID card would have shown far more info than just who you are. From poor memory it would have had a health details, colour, origin (ie Chinese, West Indian etc), political party, religion***, organ donor agreement, tax, home and family info, criminal record, interviews by the police etc etc etc - and I suspect the IDs of your mistresses, actual or suspected. To be more precise a veritable litany of info about you which could have been used by any tom, dick, harry or uncle tom cobley who got it7 I suspect that it was not the idea of an ID card but the detail included which annoyed the population.

*** Very sensitive. In Holland before the German invasion public records showed people's addresses and religion. These were actually used by the nazis to round up for slaughter all Jews. Who knows; the far left could use such records to send to the gulags anyone who had voted for the wrong party.

We still have an ID problem. Normally you use a passport or driving licence (both have photos) but someone like JR has no passport and lost his driving licence because of his illness. There are many situations when we need photo ID - opening a bank account, dealing with the police or young people, even getting a card for an old people's bus ticket, flying between towns in the UK, even admittance to Costco and some work places etc etc.
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Re: Identification.

Post by Avon »

sejintenej wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:11 pm I suspect that it was not the idea of an ID card but the detail included which annoyed the population.
I think you credit the population with far too much discernment. It was unpopular because it was new, far too European an idea, smacked of Big Brother and new. Wiser minds realised that we'd also make an absolute hash of rolling it out.

A shame really; it would have helped identify entitlement to services, helped identify illegal immigrants, and helped with such things as the Traveller problem. It could also have played a role in managing identity theft.
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Re: Identification.

Post by sejintenej »

Avon wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:33 pm
sejintenej wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:11 pm I suspect that it was not the idea of an ID card but the detail included which annoyed the population.
I think you credit the population with far too much discernment. It was unpopular because it was new, far too European an idea, smacked of Big Brother and new. Wiser minds realised that we'd also make an absolute hash of rolling it out.

A shame really; it would have helped identify entitlement to services, helped identify illegal immigrants, and helped with such things as the Traveller problem. It could also have played a role in managing identity theft.
Shades of H G Well's 1984
The hash was to be guaranteed - look at how they have everyone's health oncomputer and how those records are left in trains, public parks and rubbish skips. Oh and I suspect that their computers are riddled with holes for n'aerdowells to walk into

As for identity theft my son's job involves researching the backgrounds of those applying for loans. On average he picks up more than a crook a day but new regulations have made it illegal for him to use his normal sources such as court records, applications for bankruptcy etc. Now they want to emasculate Google and the like with Article 13.
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Re: Identification.

Post by LongGone »

"Hang on a minute. I haven't lived in the UK for 14 years now, but are you all saying that there is still no such thing as a government issued ID card? When I first moved to the US, I didn't drive but it was incredibly easy to stroll to the local Department of Motor Vehicles and wait several hours (just like every one else) to be issued an official photo ID that I could use for air travel, buying beer etc. It made life so much easier. "

Your license is now only partially useful for this. For full coverage you have to get a Gold Star drivers license, which requires as much information as a passport. The idea of a National ID card is still viewed with great suspicion in the US, as the first step in a Communist takeover of government, to be followed by seizure of all guns, socialist medicine and the required teaching of evolution!
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Re: Identification.

Post by sejintenej »

LongGone wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:08 pm "Hang on a minute. I haven't lived in the UK for 14 years now, but are you all saying that there is still no such thing as a government issued ID card? When I first moved to the US, I didn't drive but it was incredibly easy to stroll to the local Department of Motor Vehicles and wait several hours (just like every one else) to be issued an official photo ID that I could use for air travel, buying beer etc. It made life so much easier. "
Reference your second sentence, that is exactly what we are saying - your only official ID document is a passport which has limited life (ten years I think) and costs a bomb. Like JR many people don't have passports and there is still a sizeable number who don't have or, being young or banned, don't have even driving licences.
On top of that your driving licence and passport are interlinked. This is, in itself offensive. Back in the dinosaur days the Commons discussed special finance for the DVLC to buy a computer to nmanage driving licences. The Minister involved made a special promise to the House that never ever would any information on the DVLC computer be made available to any other oerson, party, department etc. Of course this promise is minute by minute being breached

Going back to my nearly serious list of what the proposed ID card would have included, there is now a proposal that unless you formally opt out then on death your body will be unceremoniously hacked to bits, those bits being shoved in some unfortunate's body so they can cavort for many extra years. Of course, not having and carrying an ID card when you die, your choice is unknown so the body snatchers will maketheir financial profit. (They could, of course, simply dispose of your ID claiming that the corpse had none.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
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Re: Identification.

Post by marty »

sejintenej wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:35 am
Going back to my nearly serious list of what the proposed ID card would have included, there is now a proposal that unless you formally opt out then on death your body will be unceremoniously hacked to bits, those bits being shoved in some unfortunate's body so they can cavort for many extra years. Of course, not having and carrying an ID card when you die, your choice is unknown so the body snatchers will maketheir financial profit. (They could, of course, simply dispose of your ID claiming that the corpse had none.
I'm sure there are many grateful recipients of organs who would refute your claim that they are "cavorting".

https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/suppor ... h-busting/
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Re: Identification.

Post by loringa »

<t>I live in a country where everyone has to carry their Civil ID at all times. It is issued to all legal residents, citizens and expats, and contains a wealth of useful information: photo, name, gender, DoB, address, telephone number, blood group and a unique identification number which appears on all other documentation: residency visa, health card, driving licence and Government ID. It also has an embedded chip which presumably contains other information too. When you enter the country along with a passport check, your fingerprints are taken and presumably checked against the central database as fingerprints are a requirement, along with a medical, of getting a residency visa in the first place. If you get caught speeding, going through a red light or any other of offence for which a fine is issued, you are not permitted to leave the country until it is paid. The price for renewing your Civil ID is the equivalent of 12.50 GBP and it lasts until your visa expires. My country of residence is not known for its transparency and is famed for its bureaucracy but they seem able to manage this system okay. I can see no reason why this was deemed such a problem for the UK; it works here and it could work there. Okay, the Government has my details but they are all in one place and linked by a single number which is very convenient. I don't have a different one for the NHS, driving licence etc like the UK.<br/>
<br/>
By the way - I look forward to reading HG Wells' 1984!</t>
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Re: Identification.

Post by sejintenej »

attempt No 2 after CHForum on my laptop closed down!
Loringa; what you describe seems a little OTT but generally OK -people here dislike change.

In France you must carry ID - an EU ID card or for others a passport. I carried photocopies which were deemed acceptable with the proviso that if demanded I had to produce the original - it never happened in 18 years. When I went there you could go to any GP or direct to a consltant or clinic of your choice and apparently some hypochondriacs would tour the GPs to get what they wanted. I actually registered when I got there (it became compulsory much later) but things like blood test results, original Xray films were / are kept by the patient (I had my reports copied to my GP as a politeness).I know little about local ID cards except that children's cards are linked to their parents.

Italy is terrible; there are no central records of people. Your birth, school, marriage, children and demise are registered in your town of residence against your name (in the anagrafe) and nowhere else. You move and the record moves with you. There is also a marriage record covering Looking for my wife's grandfather at least we had an approximate year and "Ancona" which turned out to be a province with 51 anagrafes. Half of the anagrafes did not answer. The 20 or so we visited turneed out to be dead ends. Italy in the late 1800's had national service. The army indexes for the entire provinces were a blank which led to us looking through huge handwritten ledgers - one for each year and in the order that 18 year olds walked in the door. There were over 6000 entries in each ledger - 18000 to 20000 records to read! The bar steward (he was a baker to cook the books) had changed his name. At 4' 9" he disliked his name of ***ito (or little ***) but we were able to tie him down, photo his army record, get his birth certificate and visit his home a few yards from where we had been staying. IF JC had no father, her grandfather has no mother!!!!! Even more of a miracle!

The USA has a thing about fingerprints. John Foster D must be turning in his grave to be associated with an airport. Being not too well and after waiting over two and a half hours with a further three plus to go I was extracted from the immigration queue and placed to the US and Canadian citizens queue. That required finger prints. Ten minutes later in front of the immigration officer they wanted even more fingerprints! They were not interested in my pre-clearance obtained before I left. By contrast, on May 21st 2000 we were through JFK immigration (no queue) in under 60 secondsand no fingerprints.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
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