Hertford uniform

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:06 am

Til I read these messages, I'd no idea the Hertford uniform took such exotic forms ! In the early '50s it was sober navy - some quite elegant, coat-dresses with their detachable silk collars, blazers, serge (?) tunics and blue cotton shirts. Tho there were also the frightful yellow dresses
(matching the boys stockings, a strange connection) specially designed for the 1953 centenary when we were all bussed down to Horsham for a day of closely supervised shared celebrations. In general, the nearer the body, the weirder the garments, notably stiff calico 'linings' (vast, shorts-shaped, under the 'blues') and nightgowns, able to stand up unaided until they'd been well worn-in.
One regret re the post merger uniform - that the girls are dressed for best as fanciful versions of the boys. This bothers me because, while the boys' outfits have a direct line from history, the girls' don't. If ye olde uniforme for them is wanted now, then a better starting point might be the portrait of Susannah Holmes? What they've got seems to display the girls as sort of would-be boys, rather than with their own genuine CH character. And the coats/stockings etc are themselves devalued by this detachment from their historic roots, and their use simply to say 'heritage' - an approach more suitable perhaps in the tourist industry ? Wonder what other people think.

Vonny · Post by **Vonny** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:19 am

Margaret wrote:One regret re the post merger uniform - that the girls are dressed for best as fanciful versions of the boys. This bothers me because, while the boys' outfits have a direct line from history, the girls' don't.

I agree with that. When we moved to Horsham in 1985 the prime concern as regards the uniform was that it "fitted" in with the boys uniform.

englishangel · Post by **englishangel** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:06 pm

Back in the late 60's/early 70's when Miss Richards was designing the uniform, (to fit everyone and flatter no-one) we suggested Susannah Holmes as a model for the uniform. What do the current gilrls think about it? Only for No 1s of course.

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:04 pm

The mind boggles - Miss Richards, designing the new uniform ? On a par with, if rumour was correct, DR deciding the colour for the 1953 yellow dresses in which sallow and possibly even spotty schoolgirls were guaranteed to look their absolute worst.
Which reminds me - DR published a slim volume of her thoughts on the young and their development (as far as i remember, having once turned its pages for a brief, horrified, moment). Has anyone else come across it ?

englishangel · Post by **englishangel** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:56 pm

I think someone has read the volume. I seem to remember someone mentioning it on another forum. Possibly 'If I knew then what I know now' forum.

I left Hertford as she retired and if the information she gave was as misguided as the advice she gave me it belongs in the fiction pile.

'You shouldn't be a doctor you I are not 'caring' enough.; I never became a doctor, I have been a midwife for 26 very happy years. I still have tears in my eyes as a baby is born.

rebel · Post by **rebel** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:23 pm

I did make a comment some time ago. THe 'slim volume' -inexplicably called Half to Remember- should have been required reading - had it been written - before anyone decided to go to CH. The ignorance DR shows of anything to do with adolescent girls is mind numbing. It is inexcusable that someone like that was put in charge of us -but perhaps this comment goes over the line in the mind of the moderator of this thread. of course, there will be many who leap to her defence - she did have favourites - but I wonder if they have read the book. Here are some quotes (no emoticon fits!)

There will always be some girls who are more boy mad than others and this I found out on our holiday in France. This may well be because of some glandular deficiency and such girls are not easy to help.

If the girls ran away I tried not to worry for I firmly believed that their guardian angel would look after them as mine so frequently looked after me.

For the most part they became self controlled and self disciplined by the time they were fourteen or fifteen and I had a theory that if a girl had not acquired these characteristics at least by the time she was sixteen there was a chance that she would commit suicide later on, for without the self discipline it is difficult to cope with life in the outside world. Susan was a case in point. A she grew older she could become wildly hysterical and was once found outside in the pouring rain hiding in the bushes, and little I could say made much difference. She died a few years after leaving schoo

And finally - such empathy and understanding, such desire to explore the reasons for such actions . . .

. One Senior, too fond of one of the staff, threw herself from the top of her house, unfortunately in full view of the other houses as it was a hot evening and many of the girls were looking out of the windows. Fortunately she did not kill herself but I felt that at the age of eighteen she should have had better control of herself.

'nuff said.

Post by **jtaylor** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:09 pm

Blo*dy hell!

I think those quotes are incredible - and I think your thoughts/observations, rebel, are more than justified in response to those types of comments.
I only hope that the relevent girls' parents have never read the book.....

Incredible

rebel · Post by **rebel** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:05 am

Well, you probably didn't mean to encourage more of the same (perhaps there should be a separate topic with quotes from this 'book') but I can't resist, being the bitter old girl(1950s) I have obviously turned out to be - although I am a survivor - thanks to a talent for comedy(you'd never have guessed, I know) - the only alternative to the tragedy I might have been . . .So here goes - from half to remember. I was at school for some of these instances.

The other rather younger girl tried to drown herself in the swimming bath but did not like the experience so she tried in the small pool amid the girl's gardens, but eventually she gave up the idea and as it was now after midnight screamed for help. She was such a promising twelve year old but I think something went wrong at home rather than anything at school.

The worst period for a girl is between thirteen and fifteen when, by nature she is up against her mother. I used to spend a lot of time with parents of this age group persuading them to have patience and to look forward to a year ahead when their daughter would have grown into the nicest of people. In a boarding school staff have an advantage, as those with the problem are together and therefore less obvious, as the bad feeling is really a home affair and we know from experience that this stage in a girl's development is soon over.

Whyever would they do this???

And look everyone what I did to help them!

Through the years several girls tried to run away . . .. Sometimes the girls got right home as far away as Wales, though I think one of them was very frightened in London at night until she met a friendly policeman.

Girls grow up at different ages, and one of the first signs was the hardening of a girl's jaw when she was about twelve as she lost the rounded contours of her childhood face. I used to notice this as they passed me leaving chapel.

englishangel · Post by **englishangel** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:18 am

I can't believe some of that was ever written, though it does explain a lot.

I have a book written for young brides in 1914 (given to my grandmother) which says something similar.

One wonders just who had the glandular imbalance.

And so, back to uniforms.

rebel · Post by **rebel** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:39 am

I didn't initiate the book question, and back to uniforms if you wish.(there are a few limericks about them on the limerick thread.)
But for the record, the book certainly does exist, and every quote is from it. If you don't believe me, I'm sure CH could get you a copy. I have one given me by another old girl.
Title: Half to Remember Days that Have Gone By
An Autobiography with the history of Christ's Hospital Girl's School, Hertford, as seen through the eyes of the Headmistress 1942-1972 by D.R. West
Dedicated to the staff and girls of Christ's Hospital Girl's School who helped to make my days there so happy and fulfilling

(her bad placing of the apostrophe, not mine)
No publisher, so I assume it was self published, printed by Sutch Printers Ltd. in East Sussex

*******************************************************

Re uniforms - I wonder if the present female pupils have to wear their uniforms 24/7 as we did. In Housey I saw a picture of them at an end of year ball where they were all dressed up. Was this just a one time special occasion?

And now I'm going away from this for a few days.

englishangel · Post by **englishangel** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:12 am

It must have been around 1968/69 when we were allowed to wear trousers after lunch on Saturdays and after afternoon chapel on Sundays. We could wear jeans, cords etc, but nothing customised,no patches or anything.

Around the same time we stopped wearing hats, which I personally thought was rather a shame In the Upper sixth I bought a 'tea-cosy' type hat at the Sale of Work at Christmas DR was highly amused but I loved it and wore it all my first year at University.

I am now an avid hat wearer, fortunately, as my husband is in the horse racing business and we go to the races quite a lot.

On the other thread, I was extremely well-hehaved at scholl and went wild at Uni. Not just wearing a hat, but drinking and sharing a flat with 6 men. I didn't do drugs and I didn't sleep around (contrary to rumours at the time) and married my first proper boyfriend, but I certainly didn't behave like a well brought up 'gel'.

Great Plum · Post by **Great Plum** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:31 am

rebel wrote:
Re uniforms - I wonder if the present female pupils have to wear their uniforms 24/7 as we did. In Housey I saw a picture of them at an end of year ball where they were all dressed up. Was this just a one time special occasion?

No, on my Deps (about 1998) I think, the school was allowed to wear 'own clothes' at weekends outside of lessons and chapel - this has now spread to anyhting outside lessons, lunch and chapel

Vonny · Post by **Vonny** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:38 pm

We were allowed to change into our own clothes on Saturday afternoons and also after morning chapel or before evening chapel. That's going back to when I started at Hertford in 1981. If I recall correctly, the Lower & Upper Sixth were allowed to wear their own clothes all weekend.
I don't remember being allowed to wear your own clothes at Horsham at all

Could be wrong though!!

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:22 am

In some ways post-war CH sounds today more like the 18 than 19 50s. School clothes all the time - in the hols too, for a few - and reminders (in 1s and then 8s anyway) of how lucky we were, as charity children, to be so provided for. We wore own clothes once a year, for the Founders Day dance in the school hall. A girls only event (it was said that we were invited to an annual dance at Haileybury, the boys school down the road, but DR always said no, the dance is in Lent and the girls do not dance in Lent. Or any other time). The October occasion was surreally awful, not least because you had to dance with staff, particularly if you were taking their subject for o-level, i still cringe at the memory of circling the floor pressed to the mauve-satin-draped thigh (it was a tango) of art supremo Hildegarde Keppel-Barrett. DR didn't take part, i think, but sat in state on the stage flanked by 2 girls, a new pair per dance. I remember being sent back to ward to do my hair properly as i'd done a ponytail, outrageously wild !

englishangel · Post by **englishangel** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:48 am

In the late 60's/early 70's the Founders Day dance ddn't exist (when did that torture stop?) so when I first went to Hertford we didn't wear our own clothes at all.

As for wearing uniform at home, My first year I did wear my my Harris tweed winter coat at Christmas, they were quite fashionable and very warm and as Euterpe said earlier much better than my partents could afford, word was that they were Â£125, in 1965.

We were still being invited to the Haileybury dance and were told we could go but had to wear uniform. Or was that an urban myth?