A Question of Queenie

[Angela Woodford]

Actually, this isn't a Question of Queenie, because we began Latin in L1Va with Miss Morrison, but still -

We had two textbooks. One was Kennedy, the other was a larger textbook bound in black. Chapter one began with the love of a puella for her columba. And the love of the columba for the puella. The mutual love of girl and dove went on for a page and a half, I seem to remember.

For some weird reason, I've been trying to remember the name of this book. Why? I don't know! I just have the mental image of the black and yellow textbooks stacked on the slanting battered desk top + "rough book" in which to write illegible scrawlings.

I spotted a terrific begin-Latin textbook in a charity shop recently. it was called "Better Read Than Dead". With nifty illustrations and interesting social and political comment, I wished we could have begun with a book like that instead of....

...what was it called?...

Munch

[judy]

It was Latin for Today Book 1! I am glad that there is a separate thread about Queenie. I had the interesting /terrifying experience of two years Latin A level being the only person in the class! I thought she was a wonderful teacher despite the level of sarcasm. I remember once being called " a disgusting little product of the welfare state" as well as being told to throw myself out of the window on numerous occasions. My kids love stories of her- interestingly I have never shared memories of needlework. Completely different level of distress. Despite my enjoyment of Queenie I think for some people she was pretty terrifying and probably damaging. She should probably only have been let loose on people who enjoyed Latin and had too much self esteem!

[kerrensimmonds]

So you were a 'piglet' too, then Judy. Before whom Queenie Blench had to cast her pearls!

[Angela Woodford]

Latin for Today! Of course - thank you so much Judy.

I can scarcely imagine two years of Queenie as the sole pupil. Actually, maybe if one were clever I think "a disgusting little product of the welfare state" was a very wrong thing to say, however.

There was a girl a year older than I in 5's, Janet ?, who, learning Greek in the V1 form, persuaded Queenie to listen to her Incredible String Band LPs. Or was it the Bonzo Dog Doo-Da Band? I believe Queenie was, for once, baffled.

Look forward to seeing you Judy!

Love, Munch

[Jo]

There was a girl a year older than I in 5's, Janet ?, who, learning Greek in the V1 form, persuaded Queenie to listen to her Incredible String Band LPs. Or was it the Bonzo Dog Doo-Da Band? I believe Queenie was, for once, baffled.

That would have been Janet Newman, who I think went on to do Classics at Oxford. I was very scared and in awe of her - she was an odd mixture of being very strict with juniors but a bit of an independent spirit herself. I think she was asked to leave just before the end of her senior sixth term, rumour had it for having a man upstairs in her room in Little Dorm. I remember she wasn't there for the Carol Service and the Deputy Head Girl (1's, Catherine Muir, I think - her nickname was Moo) read the lesson that Janet, as Head Girl, should have read.

[judy]

You are quite obviously right that it was an unacceptable thing to say and if any teacher had said anything like that to my kids I would have been raging, but my memory was of laughing rather than being upset- something about the delivery! I also have considerable admiration for any Classics teacher who was prepared to let me study the love poetry of Catullus including his translations of Sappho's poems in such a bizarre environment as CH.
Talking of parental reaction to the CH environment I remember being very proud of my Mum for her brilliant handling of DR. Having been summoned to account for my dreadful behaviour one Long Sat she congratulated her on the fact that she must have made me feel very secure in school as I was always so well behaved at home and must have felt very safe to engage in normal teenage behaviour whilst at school!
With a few exceptions I do believe that most of the adults at CH thought they were doing the best for us even when they quite evidently did not understand teenage girls. I have some very fond memories of many of the teaching staff - certainly Miss Mercer and Miss Farrow taught History in a way that allowed us to explore interesting ideas and concepts at depth and I enjoyed my University History far more as a result of their teaching. I also really enjoyed my year of Roman History with Mrs Toplis - I still have vivid memories of all the different battles and the diagrams of different coloured battle lines and strategies (red for Romans, purple for Carthaginians). I was also very good friends with her daughter Fiona for a while and missed them both lots when they left.
I thought Mrs Betterton and Mrs Thomas were lovely warm people who deserved better than we often gave them. I have one dreadful memory of an English lesson when Mrs Betterton was reading a poem and became quite upset- I believe her son had recently died - and I think several people were quite irritated and annoyed with her for "not managing her feelings better". We could be quite arrogant liitlle sods at times! I also remember having terrorised one poor Maths teacher so badly that we had to have DR come and teach us for the rest of the year. Needless to say we felt we had gained some kind of victory.
I also find it astonishing that at one point in my life thanks to Miss Wilson I could have drawn a pretty decent sketch map of any part of the UK and put in all the main physical features, cities and industries.

I have far less positive memories of house staff - unusually my"bad" behaviour ( I was not immediately compliant!) meant that I had the distinction of being in three different houses. Millie was by far the most unpleasant of those I encountered but I did not find Fanny a positive experience and although Mrs Brown in 7s was fairly harmless she was not exactly a positive force for good. My professional life has been mainly involved in providing, managing or supporting residential child care for vulnerable children.Many of the kids at CH were vulnerable {remember the level of self harm?} -the service they got from those adults was often dreadful - the care and support came mainly from other girls. If , however, you showed care for others particularly younger kids you were viewed with dreadful suspicion- I remember being told that my relationship with another girl was "most strange and peculiar" I wonder what word they were really searching for?!

[Angela Woodford]

There was a girl a year older than I in 5's, Janet ?, who, learning Greek in the V1 form, persuaded Queenie to listen to her Incredible String Band LPs. Or was it the Bonzo Dog Doo-Da Band? I believe Queenie was, for once, baffled.

That would have been Janet Newman, who I think went on to do Classics at Oxford. I was very scared and in awe of her - she was an odd mixture of being very strict with juniors but a bit of an independent spirit herself. I think she was asked to leave just before the end of her senior sixth term, rumour had it for having a man upstairs in her room in Little Dorm. I remember she wasn't there for the Carol Service and the Deputy Head Girl (1's, Catherine Muir, I think - her nickname was Moo) read the lesson that Janet, as Head Girl, should have read.

Janet Newman, of course. I remember thinking her so much more sophisticated than I should ever be! For one thing - Classics with Queenie! (Terror me...) Then, come Saturday nights, when I'd be visiting friends in 5s, she had Rubber Soul for the Dansette record player. When we were allowed to go on walks in a little group of three + a Senior, Janet led us a route I'd never been on before and behold! some youths bobbed up from behind a hedge. Janet engaged them in a confident repartee - the rest of us kicked at leaves or looked up at the sky. "Plenty leave this place and get pregnant" she laughed. The youths joined in, in what I felt was a furtive manner. In fact the thought of post CH pregnancy seemed an uncomfortable concept and I was glad when we said goodbye to the youths and stomped on our way. After all, we could have been spotted by some All Seeing Eye and sent to DR....

It's maybe my memory at fault here, but if Janet Newman was Head Girl, Judy Evans was Head Girl and so was Rosalynde Bush, how did that come about when they were all the same year? And if she had a Youth in Little Dorm when she was Head Girl, surely she would have been resident in the Flat by then? Puzzling.

Love from Munch

[Jo]

It's maybe my memory at fault here, but if Janet Newman was Head Girl, Judy Evans was Head Girl and so was Rosalynde Bush, how did that come about when they were all the same year? And if she had a Youth in Little Dorm when she was Head Girl, surely she would have been resident in the Flat by then? Puzzling.

I'm pretty sure Janet was the year below Judy Evans. I think Judy was in the LVI when I arrived, whereas Janet was in the UV. And Janet was only Head Girl from summer till Christmas, when she was in the Senior VI, which I suppose would have been the second half of 1970. I remember the name Ros Bush, but I wouldn't ever have remembered she was Head Girl.

You must be right about the Flat though rather than Little Dorm, though I would have thought it was less serious in the Flat, where juniors wouldn't have been permanently scarred by the sight of a man upstairs . Unless she was caught in flagrante....

It's a bit anal, but at the reunion we must try and piece together between us who was in which house in which year, and what the list of Head Girls was during our collective years at CH. Am I correct in thinking that at some point they stopped making people in the Senior VI Head Girls and prefects, on the basis that they needed to concentrate on their Oxbridge entrance preparation? Or did I just dream that one up?

[englishangel]

I think after about 1970 there was no Senior Vith, as Oxbridge exams were taken in Upper Sixth. Judy or Mary can probably answer that one. Carolyn was only in Senior Sixth and Head Girl 70/72 because she switched from Sciences to Arts

[icomefromalanddownunder]

I think after about 1970 there was no Senior Vith, as Oxbridge exams were taken in Upper Sixth. Judy or Mary can probably answer that one. Carolyn was only in Senior Sixth and Head Girl 70/72 because she switched from Sciences to Arts

Mary Mc and I visited the end of Christmas Term 72, when Alex was in Senior V1th (or so I thought). Er, Alex was definitely there: I remember going up to the Flat with her.

Returning to Judy's thread about staff members, specifically Mrs Betterton's public tears after the death of her son - I feel guilty, to this day, that I didn't have the confidence to go to the front of the class and comfort her.

[Angela Woodford]

Returning to Judy's thread about staff members, specifically Mrs Betterton's public tears after the death of her son - I feel guilty, to this day, that I didn't have the confidence to go to the front of the class and comfort her.

Caroline, wasn't Mrs Bett the most wonderful sensitive empathetic woman? I feel sure that she would have realised that, for us, staff didn't express grief, and we simply wouldn't have been able to handle that situation. She'd been a girl at the School herself. She would have understood.

O tempora! O mores! Awful.

Love from Munch

[englishangel]

I think after about 1970 there was no Senior Vith, as Oxbridge exams were taken in Upper Sixth. Judy or Mary can probably answer that one. Carolyn was only in Senior Sixth and Head Girl 70/72 because she switched from Sciences to Arts

Mary Mc and I visited the end of Christmas Term 72, when Alex was in Senior V1th (or so I thought). Er, Alex was definitely there: I remember going up to the Flat with her.

Returning to Judy's thread about staff members, specifically Mrs Betterton's public tears after the death of her son - I feel guilty, to this day, that I didn't have the confidence to go to the front of the class and comfort her.

See, another thing I didn't know, I didn't realise Alex had stayed on.

I think I left and expunged the place from my mind.

[Jo]

Returning to Judy's thread about staff members, specifically Mrs Betterton's public tears after the death of her son - I feel guilty, to this day, that I didn't have the confidence to go to the front of the class and comfort her.

Caroline, wasn't Mrs Bett the most wonderful sensitive empathetic woman? I feel sure that she would have realised that, for us, staff didn't express grief, and we simply wouldn't have been able to handle that situation. She'd been a girl at the School herself. She would have understood.

O tempora! O mores! Awful.

Love from Munch

Mrs Betterton had been in 5's and her name (maiden name obviously, Kathleen Baron) was on our Mons' Board for about 1929. She was indeed a very gentle, lovely woman. I remember her reading to us in English classes: once, when reading "My Family and Other Animals", she glossed over a line that would have required her to read out the word "bl**dy"*, and substituted "blooming" instead. Another time, she was reading a historical novel, I believe set in Roman times, where she said she had to abbreviate it in order to complete it all in a term, but the only bit she expunged was the bit between a couple meeting and having their first child. So sweet I didn't know she'd lost a son though - was this during your time at CH, or much earlier but the memory still upset her?

When Mrs Bett was retiring, 5's put on some sort of house entertainment for her (poor woman!). The only piece I remember was that, for some reason best known to themselves, the organisers decided to include Simon & Garfunkel's "Cecilia". Except that they thought the line "making love in the afternoon" might offend Mrs B (they were probably right), so they bowdlerised it to "making cakes in the afternoon", which, if you know that the next line is "....with Cecilia up in my bedroom", makes no sense at all

She was replaced by an odd little woman called Miss Hann, who was brisk and no-nonsense, and had a thick mop of white hair like a carpet brush. She was sometimes kind and funny but other times biting and sarcastic. I only had her for one year in the 5th form as I didn't do English A Level. But she failed to check the A Level syllabus for the people in my year and missed the fact it had changed, so she prepared them for the wrong topics. It was a mark of the innate kindness of the pupils concerned that they felt so sorry for her that they bought her some chocolates - despite the fact that all of them received much lower grades in A Level English than they should have done. Actually, it probably made her feel more wretched than ever.


* gosh, even the forum software is offended by the word.... their asterisks, not mine!!

[Alexandra Thrift]

What a great post Judy.( I've re-posted it with this.) Lovely to have you here.Full of admiration as regards your work.What a wise Mum you had.
On the subject of Latin, I do seem to remember that Mary Mc did Latin A level (didn't she ?) and definitely Kathleen Bell.

Sadly Mrs Betterton died about 3 years ago. I remember when her son died.I seem to think that she cried when we expressed our condolences on her return to school. It all felt perfectly normal for her to be upset in such heart rending circumstances ( he died in an air accident- possibly in the RAF ? ) and I really felt her pain and the feeling of helplessness that nothing could make it better. She was a very sweet lady and in a very gentle way,a good teacher.

To all who enquired, I did stay on for one term (until Christmas). Oxford accepted me if I got better grades for my "A" levels ( they liked my Oxford entrance paper saying it was one of the best they had seen ) ...in the end I was too stressed to do the retakes ( I had already managed to pass them all) and left at Christmas. I was quite a silly teenager and needed more attention and guidance. For example "English" A level would have been a doddle for me but when I saw that I had already read all the set books on the syllabus I decided to study Biology instead. Too stupid , silly and arrogant of me. Then I was doing HIstory,Geography and Biology which were three huge subjects for lazy , anxious teenage me. It's a miracle I passed them all because I didn't really do much work although I spent hours and hours in the library reading all the periodicals,newspapers and philosophy books. I liked memorising the smart alec quotes of famous people and just loved taking the Oxford Entrance Exam where I could air the fairly naive ideas I had amassed in this way. I was no good at the the more disciplined "A" level requirement of simple facts.

You are quite obviously right that it was an unacceptable thing to say and if any teacher had said anything like that to my kids I would have been raging, but my memory was of laughing rather than being upset- something about the delivery! I also have considerable admiration for any Classics teacher who was prepared to let me study the love poetry of Catullus including his translations of Sappho's poems in such a bizarre environment as CH.
Talking of parental reaction to the CH environment I remember being very proud of my Mum for her brilliant handling of DR. Having been summoned to account for my dreadful behaviour one Long Sat she congratulated her on the fact that she must have made me feel very secure in school as I was always so well behaved at home and must have felt very safe to engage in normal teenage behaviour whilst at school!
With a few exceptions I do believe that most of the adults at CH thought they were doing the best for us even when they quite evidently did not understand teenage girls. I have some very fond memories of many of the teaching staff - certainly Miss Mercer and Miss Farrow taught History in a way that allowed us to explore interesting ideas and concepts at depth and I enjoyed my University History far more as a result of their teaching. I also really enjoyed my year of Roman History with Mrs Toplis - I still have vivid memories of all the different battles and the diagrams of different coloured battle lines and strategies (red for Romans, purple for Carthaginians). I was also very good friends with her daughter Fiona for a while and missed them both lots when they left.
I thought Mrs Betterton and Mrs Thomas were lovely warm people who deserved better than we often gave them. I have one dreadful memory of an English lesson when Mrs Betterton was reading a poem and became quite upset- I believe her son had recently died - and I think several people were quite irritated and annoyed with her for "not managing her feelings better". We could be quite arrogant liitlle sods at times! I also remember having terrorised one poor Maths teacher so badly that we had to have DR come and teach us for the rest of the year. Needless to say we felt we had gained some kind of victory.
I also find it astonishing that at one point in my life thanks to Miss Wilson I could have drawn a pretty decent sketch map of any part of the UK and put in all the main physical features, cities and industries.

I have far less positive memories of house staff - unusually my"bad" behaviour ( I was not immediately compliant!) meant that I had the distinction of being in three different houses. Millie was by far the most unpleasant of those I encountered but I did not find Fanny a positive experience and although Mrs Brown in 7s was fairly harmless she was not exactly a positive force for good. My professional life has been mainly involved in providing, managing or supporting residential child care for vulnerable children.Many of the kids at CH were vulnerable {remember the level of self harm?} -the service they got from those adults was often dreadful - the care and support came mainly from other girls. If , however, you showed care for others particularly younger kids you were viewed with dreadful suspicion- I remember being told that my relationship with another girl was "most strange and peculiar" I wonder what word they were really searching for?!

[englishangel]

I know Mmary Mc was very good at Latin (Queenie always thought Latin and Maths were very similar which Gaye - now Rosemary - thought hilarious) but I thought she did Physics, 2 x Maths and Computer something or another for A levels, I am sure she has told us somewhere on here.