A Question of Queenie

[Katharine]

To all who enquired, I did stay on for one term (until Christmas). Oxford accepted me if I got better grades for my "A" levels ( they liked my Oxford entrance paper saying it was one of the best they had seen ) ...in the end I was too stressed to do the retakes ( I had already managed to pass them all) and left at Christmas.

I had not heard of Oxford doing this before. I certainly had the impression that in my time the entrance papers were all that really counted. Certainly I know of people taking the exams before A levels being told that they just needed 2 Es (minimum passes) and one person who went to a different college in my year and is now very well recognised in her field was believed to have achieved just that.

To go back to Judy's post, I do think that many of the teaching staff, and DR, thought they were doing their best for us and were a very different calibre of human being than the house mistresses. I know my life, at CH, was blighted by mine. I hope that when I was teaching I could remember some of the things that were wrong at CH and improve on them in my work.

[sejintenej]

It's Sunday so a few thoughts for the day to ponder on

Whilst I can understand it, it still saddens me how so many adults fail children so miserably. Alexandra has written movingly about a couple of teachers who seem to have tried their best. There is mention of teachers who have been forced to bowdlerise literature in fear of what another school teacher might possibly say - and make a pigs ear of the subject as a result. If the girls could not understand and accept the originals then IMHO the school had already failed in its duty to you.

As for your house mistresses - there seem to have been a few reasonabl;e ones and many more suited to that place in Jersey.

Yes - there were a lot of you but you arrived over a period of years so it should not have been difficult to get each year group up to a reasonable standard of knowledge of life in short order and for the older girls to present a sensible and sensitive background to those struggling to adapt.

How many of you learned how to handle and budget money whilst you were at school?
How many of you had any idea about business and corporations which you learned at school?
How many of you understood how the country, government, civil service and associated autarchies worked?
How many of you learned the psychology of human relationships?
I know that you were taught that anything in pants was a crime to be avoided - a crime in itself. How many of you left the school thinking that "that 3 letter word" was dirty, to be avoided, to be mentioned in the lowest of wispers and with the lights out? (Well, I know - enough posts have illustrated to problems caused by misinformation).

Ok so you could sew a pretty dress, you could write poems in faultless Latin and recite Pope but when you left school how many of you knew how to live and to get the best out of life??. A couple of you that I know of simply could not cope - you were failed by the education system. How many of you have been beyond the limit of what you thought you could do - and experienced the euphoria of success????

And what about your children? Are you satisfied with the slant given by the schools or are you talking to them AND LISTENING TO THEM? You think your children can bring every one of their problems to you - but do they think the same?

It is never too late to get close to your children - give them a special hug when you next see them.

[MKM]

I have fond memories of Mrs Betterton. She asked us to write (for our English prep) a newspaper article on the school. I wrote about it as "a well known girl's school". Mrs Betterton's gentle teasing ("who is this well-known girl, Mary?") made me remember the rules about apostrophe's* forever.

I also remember an incident where she took a group of girls to London, and they managed to lose Mrs B. on the tube. The girls were very worried, because Mrs B. was not thought competent to look after herself in the big city.

And another story, told by Mrs B herself, was that she was on a train to Ware (where she lived) in the late evening. When the train got to Ware, the compartment that she was in came to rest beyond the end of the platform. Being unable to get off the train, she travelled on to Hertford East, where she told her story to the railway staff, who laid on a special train, just for her, to take her back to Ware.

When we were doing our O levels, she arranged for a recently-left old girl (does anyone remember who it was?) to visit with a group of drama students (?) and lead a workshop on The Lord of the Flies (one of our set texts). We stomped round in a circle, chanting "Kill the Pig, Taste its Blood" (or something along those lines). It was a powerful experience, and I remember Mrs B. saying afterwards that she had been close to stopping it.

We read a lot of plays in our English lessons, including "The Barrets of Wimpole Street", and several by GB Shaw.

*One of the rules, anyway.

[Alexandra Thrift]

Hi Mary,:)

I don't remember doing "Kill The Pig "...sure I would have enjoyed it though ! I can somehow picture us savagely marauding around . I do remember doing Lord of the Flies for O level though.

"I had not heard of Oxford doing this before. I certainly had the impression that in my time the entrance papers were all that really counted. Certainly I know of people taking the exams before A levels being told that they just needed 2 Es (minimum passes) and one person who went to a different college in my year and is now very well recognised in her field was believed to have achieved just that."

Thanks for that info. Katharine.Maybe I had a "waiting list" place at Oxford. What on earth did I stay on for then ? I have a ghastly feeling I was simply scared of leaving but I couldn't have stayed on without a reason. Home life had just about fallen apart and my mother had given up interest in parenting and let all the rooms out to lodgers to help fund her gambling habit !

I don't remember being given any practical skills for life at CH that Dave Brown talks about. I didn't have much of a clue but somehow survived , making some terrible blunders along the way.

As this is a " Queenie" thread I would just like to say that I wasn't really afraid of her.I never felt any real malice in her taunts and wore them like a badge of honour. She was very amusing..." Alexandra ,what have you done to your hair ? You look just like a poodle ! "

[Jo]

How many of you learned how to handle and budget money whilst you were at school?
How many of you had any idea about business and corporations which you learned at school?
How many of you understood how the country, government, civil service and associated autarchies worked?
How many of you learned the psychology of human relationships?
I know that you were taught that anything in pants was a crime to be avoided - a crime in itself. How many of you left the school thinking that "that 3 letter word" was dirty, to be avoided, to be mentioned in the lowest of wispers and with the lights out? (Well, I know - enough posts have illustrated to problems caused by misinformation).

Ok so you could sew a pretty dress, you could write poems in faultless Latin and recite Pope but when you left school how many of you knew how to live and to get the best out of life??. A couple of you that I know of simply could not cope - you were failed by the education system. How many of you have been beyond the limit of what you thought you could do - and experienced the euphoria of success????

I agree - we weren't prepared for life at all at CH in the 70's, but as Alex says, somehow we muddled through and the people we are now represent all the muddling and coping we've done along the way. I'm not sorry we had a fairly academic education, though I wish they'd managed to squeeze in more about real life too. I would hate to have gone to a posh but brainless finishing school type place where we were only taught how to perform in society but nothing about using our minds. But then I suppose I speak not as one of the casualties - though thirty years ago I didn't have much good to say about the place.

It's taken me a long time to come to terms with what I thought CH did to me, only to realise that perhaps it wasn't so bad after all. This forum has helped immeasurably - I'd resisted all "formal" OB type activities in the past as I imagined everyone involved would be rara-ing the place to the skies and any interest would be taken as a sign of enormous gratitude for what the wonderful institution had done for us. I love the down-to-earth irreverence mixed with affection here; it makes me realise that other people feel the same as me and it's put things in perspective.

Sorry, I'm rambling I know, but it seems an appropriate moment to say thanks to you all for helping me feel better about CH. I found myself saying to the other half in Hertford yesterday "I'm actually quite happy to have gone somewhere a bit weird!"

[judy]

I think after about 1970 there was no Senior Vith, as Oxbridge exams were taken in Upper Sixth. Judy or Mary can probably answer that one.

We definitely still had a senior VI in 1972 as Alex and I were both in it. We almost weren't allowed to stay on however as we were considered too wicked to help Miss Tucker when she arrived as new headmistress. DR summoned us both and told us that she did not feel our behaviour and attitude was good enough and she did not feel that she ought to leave us in responsible positions when she left! I think we were probably only allowed to stay on because Sue Foakes sacrificed herself on the altar of duty and stayed on for an extra year to be headgirl. I have to say that was the best term of my school career even though Miss Coles who had taken over from Miss Mercer wrote in my report that I had wasted the opportunities it gave! She had to hurriedly tell me not to take too much notice of my report when I got an interview at Oxford! I really enjoyed the relationship I had with the teaching staff and we were left pretty much to ourselves in the flat and could probably have got away with anything including having young men to stay!

The UVI entrance exam had a serious casualty in our year as Penny Evans who was Judy Evans's younger sister, was offered a place at Oxford conditional on getting 2 Es in her A-levels. Unfortunately she must have relaxed too much and ended up only getting one E and failing her other exams.

How many of you understood how the country, government, civil service and associated autarchies worked?
How many of you learned the psychology of human relationships?

I think David is actually being a mite harsh in this posting. Actually I think we probably understood better than many other young people our age the government etc.
In terms of the business world - the reality was that nobody was getting that kind of education at that point - it certainly was not just girls at CH.
I learned a huge amount about the psychology of human relationships at CH. It may not have been the intention at all but I have no doubt that I have drawn on my experience at CH in understanding group dynamics, love, friendship and betrayal, the developmental life cycle in particular adolescence, middle age and old age. In practical terms I think I honed my listening and observational skills while I was there. I certainly understand the power of bullying and the importance of listening to children. I am sure that I have been more effective in confronting and exposing cruelty, lack of concern and neglect of people particularly children. I understood the ideas underlying resilience theory before they became fashionable and popular because I knew that something about my home experience meant that I thrived on the stress inherent in the CH environment while recognising that many people that I cared about and (some whom nobody cared about) were suffering badly as they did not necessarily have the same emotional support that I did.

I am also quite clear that I have been a really good Mum and yes my kids do talk to me and always have- in some ways the capacity to care for others and especially younger people was enhanced by CH not damaged by it.

[englishangel]

I think in terms of Government etc we were very well informed. I can remember DR talking to us about the 6 Day war and what might happen, and we must only have been about 12 or 13. Also she told us about walking through New York with a male friend when she was younger and how in London he would walk on the road side to prevent her being disturbed by the cars going past, whereas in New York he walked on the inside so she would not be mugged from the alleyways.

I really had no idea what went on at Hertford after I left. I didn't get fantastic A Levels either, and had no places offered at any university but got in through clearing. It would NEVER have occurred to me to go back and retake any exams.

I met Penny many years later and she had retaken her A levels elsewhere and went to UCL so she did well in the end.

[sejintenej]

I think in terms of Government etc we were very well informed. I can remember DR talking to us about the 6 Day war and what might happen, and we must only have been about 12 or 13. Also she told us about walking through New York with a male friend when she was younger and how in London he would walk on the road side to prevent her being disturbed by the cars going past, whereas in New York he walked on the inside so she would not be mugged from the alleyways.

I really had no idea what went on at Hertford after I left. I didn't get fantastic A Levels either, and had no places offered at any university but got in through clearing. It would NEVER have occurred to me to go back and retake any exams.

I met Penny many years later and she had retaken her A levels elsewhere and went to UCL so she did well in the end.

5 years (if I can write that about a lady) difference but a world apart. In the boys school (and as it pertains to Col A):

- no instruction/explanation / discussion / lectures about government, laws, courts, employment, you-name-it, .....
- no discussion of what goes on in the outside world ( I was forced to read a newspaper daily for a week as a punishment but not knowing any background I didn't understand it)
- no discussion / instruction about "manners" (like walking on the road side of a lady to prevent her skirts being splashed by passing vehicles)
- no discussion of universities - I didn't even know until a very long time after I left that Oxford and Cambridge were not the only universities let alomne know what happened there. I thought they were simplky more advanced schools.

Apart from lessons, thrashings, the CCF officer(s) and the doctor/nurses we had virtually no contact with adults; everything was run by the monitors

edit; and a suggestion from Mr Jones that unless we forget our parents we will be even more upset leaving them

[englishangel]

I don't know what happened in other houses but 2's had the Daily Telegraph delivered every day and as I had been reading it at home since I was about 6 years old it was quite natural for me to read it at school. Why we had the DT at home I don't know as my parents were (still are) dyed -in-the-wool Liberals. and they still get the Telegraph at weekends, though I am more of an Indy girl myself.

I think Alex said she spent her A level revision time reading something irrelevant, and with me it was all the bound back copies of Punch (RIP) in the library. A social history of Britain if ever there was one.

[Mid A 15]

I don't know what happened in other houses but 2's had the Daily Telegraph delivered every day and as I had been reading it at home since I was about 6 years old it was quite natural for me to read it at school. Why we had the DT at home I don't know as my parents were (still are) dyed -in-the-wool Liberals. and they still get the Telegraph at weekends, though I am more of an Indy girl myself.

I think Alex said she spent her A level revision time reading something irrelevant, and with me it was all the bound back copies of Punch (RIP) in the library. A social history of Britain if ever there was one.

We used to get Punch in Horsham too.

I used to enjoy Alan Coren (RIP).

[MKM]

Although my general memory of Hertford is of being isolated from the outside world, there were some attempts to teach us about it.

A group of us were allowed to go to a political meeting to listen to the prospective Conservative MP, and some of asked questions at the end.

I went to the Hertford County Court, to listen to a trial, with a friend interested in law (she wasn't allowed to go on her own).

In the sixth form we had classes in "civics" (with Miss Farrow?). My recollection is that they were mostly about the USA election system (I found it as boring then as I do now).

We had a short series of talks. I remember them being in the history room, so perhaps they were arranged by Miss Mercer. The only one I remember was about insurance, mortgages, and endowment policies. The man giving the talk (possibly a bank manager) seemed unprepared for the persistence of our questions. I pointed out that, according to the handout, it was possible that there would not be enough money, at the end of the term, to pay off the mortgage. He didn't seem to believe me, but didn't argue. I think that events have proved me right.

Does anyone else remember these talks?

[englishangel]

Although my general memory of Hertford is of being isolated from the outside world, there were some attempts to teach us about it.

A group of us were allowed to go to a political meeting to listen to the prospective Conservative MP, and some of asked questions at the end.

I went to the Hertford County Court, to listen to a trial, with a friend interested in law (she wasn't allowed to go on her own).

In the sixth form we had classes in "civics" (with Miss Farrow?). My recollection is that they were mostly about the USA election system (I found it as boring then as I do now).

We had a short series of talks. I remember them being in the history room, so perhaps they were arranged by Miss Mercer. The only one I remember was about insurance, mortgages, and endowment policies. The man giving the talk (possibly a bank manager) seemed unprepared for the persistence of our questions. I pointed out that, according to the handout, it was possible that there would not be enough money, at the end of the term, to pay off the mortgage. He didn't seem to believe me, but didn't argue. I think that events have proved me right.

Does anyone else remember these talks?

I don't remember the talks but I remember going to the town hall for a talk about joining the EEC (as it was then). I don't know if that is what Mary is remembering. I think it was a Conservative Peer but there may have a been a prospective Parliamentary candidate there as well.

[MKM]

I don't remember the talks but I remember going to the town hall for a talk about joining the EEC (as it was then). I don't know if that is what Mary is remembering. I think it was a Conservative Peer but there may have a been a prospective Parliamentary candidate there as well.

You're right, Mary, it was Lord Balniel. I must have invented the bit about a prospective Parliamentary candidate.

[englishangel]

I couldn't remember his name. Trouble is after all these years things tend to run together. (in the memory JR, in the memory)

[J.R.]

I couldn't remember his name. Trouble is after all these years things tend to run together. (in the memory JR, in the memory)

I bit like diarrhoea, then !

That's strictly hereditary ...................




It runs in the JEANS !