Re-applying for Deps - A Vicious Rumour???

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carong
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Re-applying for Deps - A Vicious Rumour???

Post by carong » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:50 pm

Hi Everyone!

I've just had a flurry of texts from my daughter, who is currently in UF, saying that there is a rumour that the new headmaster is intending to make everyone re-apply for Deps (with an exam!) and that there will no longer be an automatic progression through the school.

Has anyone else heard this or is it just one of those urban myths ... and am I therefore guilty of giving it legs by posting on here??

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Post by Momto2 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:09 pm

My son is a UF and this is the first I've heard of it! We've just sent back his form for A'Level choices.

I can't believe the school would go through the whole process again!

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Post by Momto2 » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:12 pm

Thinking about it a bit more it just seems so improbable.

I think most children would be outraged - sort of like reapplying for your own job!

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Post by carong » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:06 pm

Momto2 wrote:Thinking about it a bit more it just seems so improbable.

I think most children would be outraged - sort of like reapplying for your own job!
That's my thinking, too ... although 'outraged' would be one way to describe my daughter when she texted me!

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Post by sejintenej » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:05 pm

Momto2 wrote:Thinking about it a bit more it just seems so improbable.

I think most children would be outraged - sort of like reapplying for your own job!
Whilst Housie teaching is generally better than normal and discipline is far better IMHO pupils should be required to acheive a specified competence before moving up to the next level of classes.
Does the young lady really have anything to fear? If she has then perhaps she has not been applying herself to studying as opposed to [insert your own ideas]

We see in state schools pupils of 11 years old who can't read and write; I'm sure that if they knew they would be kept in primary school until they could do so to a good level (even at the age of 18!!!) they might just buck their ideas up.
Imagine going to an employer and saying that you ended school in 2nd year!

Outraged? any change usually incurs annoyance as CH has seen in the past. There are times when change just has to be imposed.



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Post by Ajarn Philip » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:52 am

I'd have thought that if a pupil had such serious problems in reaching and maintaining an academic level satisfactory to the school (whatever that may be), they should be identified and addressed in consultation with the pupil and parents at a fairly early stage.

Setting an exam and effectively expelling anyone who fails it seems a bit harsh, and certainly not conducive to a positive learning environment.

A step backwards, and one that is surely unlikely to happen. (Mrs C - are you able to comment?)

I think Momto2's daughter (and if that were my daughter you were referring to, I'd be offended) has every right to express concern, and displays a positive attitude and maturity by doing so.

To put this all into context, it sounds like a classic example of the rumour mill in overdrive. I do hope so, anyway.
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Post by Momto2 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:45 am

Didn't have brain in gear last night - my son is a GE and not a UF so that could be why the rumour mill hasn't reached him yet! If there is anything in the rumours then presumably it would be too late to do anything with the current GE!

I do however have an LE also ...

I just can't see it happening (... I hope it won't happen). I simply can't see the point - if a child's GCSEs are good enough then they should be given the chance to go further and that has surely always been the criteria in the past. It would also have massive knock on effects for other areas of the school - sport, music (including all the different bands) etc.

It couldn't be the decision of just the Headmaster in any case could it?

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Post by jtaylor » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:11 am

I believe that there was a rule/standard when I was at CH that you had to get 5 GCSEs (C or above), including Maths and English, in order to continue into the Deps. I think this was more of a formality than something to particularly worry about, as anyone who was struggling that much would have received a lot of extra help by then anyway, and would have had to completely not care at all if they ended up with so few.

I don't know if this was also a rumour, but I do remember it focussing my mind to achieve....

Maybe this is what this rumour is based on??

There does appear to be a general perception these days that everyone has the "right" to do A-Levels and more particularly go to University.
Personally I don't feel that A-Levels are worth spending the time on if the student is not going to pass them - a complete waste of time!
Similarly, giving every child the "right" to go to University if they're not bright enough is NOT time well-spent - it's a complete waste of time and they'd be better doing something which will really help their career prospects in something they really want to do and have the potentialy to be good at....

(I will also be sourcing some flame-proof overalls)

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Post by carong » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:52 am

OK you can all put your flame-proof overalls away!

No, sejintenej, the young lady in question does not have anything to fear - other than the lack of a sense of fair play towards herself and her peers. (And yes, Ajarn, I was offended!) She would have absolutely no problem passing such an exam. The question is, why should she have to jump through the same hoop twice?

However, it has been pointed out to me that there have always been (more subtle, perhaps?) ways of ensuring that 'undesirables' (for want of a better word) didn't go through to 6th form. As Julian pointed out, there was the minimum requirement of GCSE/O Levels, and do any Hertford girls remember BAs? If you didn't get one of those, you didn't get to go to 6th form.

So perhaps I have over-reacted, and sent the rumour mill crashing into overdrive unnecessarily. I certainly wouldn't want the new head to think that we OBs run around causing trouble at the slightest provocation. (A little unashamed grovelling felt called for here!)

:oops:

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Post by Mrs C. » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:14 pm

I believe there still is a minimum requirement of GCSE grades, although, in my experience, some who just scrape through and stay on,struggle to cope with the "demands" of A/S and A2s.

I know nothing about this rumour.

My personal opinion is that GCSE grades alone should not determine automatic entry to Sixth form for current pupils at CH. I believe that the larger longterm picture should be viewed - behaviour, attitude etc etc.
I think that certain " less desirable" pupils may have their " cards marked" at some stage with the suggestion that they might like to think about 6th form education elswhere if they don`t change their act.
But I also think that it would do the majority of pupils no harm to realise this.

After all, there is no "right" for anyone to education post-16. if pupils wish to stay at school they must show that they are serious about furthering their education.

Respecting school rules and meeting school`s expectations, academically and socially, are of great importance - some Deps and Grecians seem to think they are above the system and continue in their previous sloppy ways, arriving late to lessons- or even missing them completely, missing Chapel, not doing work, not wearing uniform correctly, and basically just being a waste of space.
What sort of example does this set for lower years?

I think the school knows its pupils well enough not to need interviews for 6th form entry - unlike those coming from elsewhere. And likewise, academic ability is known too. Entrance exams are necessary for "incomers" because no matter what we`d like to believe, references and predicted grades can not always be believed!
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Post by Katharine » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:37 pm

Mrs C. wrote:My personal opinion is that GCSE grades alone should not determine automatic entry to Sixth form for current pupils at CH. I believe that the larger longterm picture should be viewed - behaviour, attitude etc etc.
I think that this is what the Hertford BA was supposed to show. We all 'knew' that we had to get a certain minimum number of O levels and a BA to get into the VI form. I do remember one girl repeating the UV because she had not got her BA and then got it at half term in the next Autumn (she was repeating in my first year so I never spoke to her and don't know any more than that).

What happened after the four term year came in and the O level results came out after the next school year had started? Was there ever a case of somebody not achieving the required number of O levels?
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Post by sejintenej » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:57 pm

Ajarn Philip wrote:I'd have thought that if a pupil had such serious problems in reaching and maintaining an academic level satisfactory to the school (whatever that may be), they should be identified and addressed in consultation with the pupil and parents at a fairly early stage.
There are at least two types of "problems"
a) Dyslexia and its peers for which special teaching methods are required. My son was diagnosed with three separate varieties and his Uni (not the secondary school) gave him some special tuition in to how to overcome the problems and he got his degree. I have no doubt that CH spots and deals with such problems far earlier and as efficiently
b) perversity, laziness, class disruption. I suspect that class disruption is not allowed to become a problem at CH but if a person simply cannot be bothered then should they be allowed to move up? The threat of being held down will be enough incentive for many to study diligently
Ajarn Philip wrote:Setting an exam and effectively expelling anyone who fails it seems a bit harsh, and certainly not conducive to a positive learning environment.

I fear that you misunderstand me. The syllabus for any subject / year uses the work for previous years as a foundation. You don't ask a pupil to study the Punic Wars in the original Latin if he or she still hasn't got the hang of Amo, Amas, Amat .......

There is an ongoing wave in this country that pupils are movinhg up to secondary school whilst they are effectively illiterate so how can they be expected to lewarn the subjects if they can't read the text books or write their homework.
A class progresses at the speed of the slowest - why penalise a whole class because of a pupil who has insufficient foundation knowledge
to even start?
Mrs C wrote:Respecting school rules and meeting school`s expectations, academically and socially, are of great importance - some Deps and Grecians seem to think they are above the system and continue in their previous sloppy ways, arriving late to lessons- or even missing them completely, missing Chapel, not doing work, not wearing uniform correctly, and basically just being a waste of space.
What sort of example does this set for lower years?
carong wrote: No, sejintenej, the young lady in question does not have anything to fear - other than the lack of a sense of fair play towards herself and her peers. She would have absolutely no problem passing such an exam. The question is, why should she have to jump through the same hoop twice?
In order to separate the wheat from the chaff. In order to have a clearly demonstrable reason if it is decided to keep someone else in her year down. In order to ensure that Mrs C's reference becomes of historic interest only. Note that I am advocating yearly exams - not just deps etc.
Same hoop twice? If such tests were standard practice and the benefits well understood then why not? It should only be those to whom Mrs C refers who have something to fear.
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Post by Mrs C. » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:36 pm

I know of one person who has repeated GE in recent years, for whatever reason

The system of repeating a year if you fail to reach a certain level of competence is, of course, normal and totally accepted in Germany and probably other countries.
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Post by englishangel » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:02 pm

IN the US you repeat a year if you are not able to complete it, and there are advanced courses for the very able. VIDE the Simpsons.

As for not doinf A Levles unless you have 5 GCSEs inclusing Maths and English, even my son's Upper School (not a comp as we are in an 11plus area, although he got BB for Double Science, B for Maths and a C for IT he was not allowed to do A levels as he did not have English. He tyhen retook it the following year and got a C but gave up school. Unfortunately has has nothig to replace it and is a NEET* and is volunteering atthe local Cancer shop.
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Post by Katharine » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:09 pm

Mrs C. wrote:The system of repeating a year if you fail to reach a certain level of competence is, of course, normal and totally accepted in Germany and probably other countries.
It was quite standard when I was teaching in Brunei. It meant that you could have a considerable age range in a class. Some students seemed to repeat several times during their school lives.
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