Welcome to the unofficial Christ's Hospital Forum - for discussing everything CH/Old Blue related. All pupils, parents, families, staff, Old Blues and anyone else related to CH are welcome to browse the boards, register and contribute.
jtaylor wrote:I would regard any falsifying of income information for assessment by CH as completely outrageous - equivalent of going to a soup kitchen to receive a free meal when you don't need it, or robbing a charity shop....
More common than you would think!
I knew someone at Hertford who boasted that her father had submitted the same false statement of income that he used for the revenue.
Thou shalt not sit with statisticians nor commit a social science.
I agree - but none of you have answered my original question, which was whether or not there is actually any way that CH could check the veracity of a declaration of income. If figures are declared they can be checked, but if they are not declared does the school have any legal means of confirming that income does not exist? I am not trying to stir up insurrection, honestly!
The strict answer would be no but with legal head on, if the school felt suitably suspicious to report it to the police a crime enquiry into the offence of "gaining a pecuniary advantage by deception" could be launched. The police would then have the power under common law to search for and seize anything that they believed to evidnetial. They could enter property to do so after an arrest (with an Inspectors authority) or prior to arrest with a magistrates warrant.
Wow! So in retrospect, once my girls were both at CH and I was available to go out and earn a living commensurate with my potential ability after receiving a CH education, if I had actually done so I would probably have had to withdraw them from school because of the resulting increase in their fees. No wonder I wasted my potential all those years, as a reluctant housewife and ended up all bitter and twisted!! Seriously though, I suspect that the 'pecuniary advantage obtained by deception' (if I had done so and not declared my income) assessed in terms of £sd of fees avoided, would fall far short of the advantage gained by my children in terms of receiving a first-rate education for comparatively little outlay (although it was certainly a struggle at the time); I doubt if the courts could put a pecuniary value on that in the same way that they do with benefit cheats. Remember, it is not a sin to be tempted - it is how you react to the temptation that matters!
May I just repeat my earlier comments along the lines of................
Lets hope certain people who obviously 'monitor' this site are taking note of not only existing parents of pupils and prospectice parents, BUT ALSO.... OB's that have benefited from the ethos of the School.
Lonelymom, thanks for the PM, it was very thoughtful of you. I'm still not very familiar with the Forum, and didn't know where to look - now I've found several messages!
With respect to the last few posts, all I can say is that we've always been scrupulously honest (not much chance to conceal any income on a P60), and just look where it's got us! I suspect though that there must be parents who are, if not actually cheating, then at least playing the system. Surely if everyone was being fairly assessed on 100% of their income, then we'd all be in the same dire financial straits. Yet every year a letter comes home inviting us to send our children on the annual school ski trip - at a cost this year of nearly £800 per head - which we are warned will be oversubscribed! I've always wondered where other 'fairly assessed' families find this sort of money...
The school's own published data suggests that no less than 20% of current pupils came from independent prep schools, yet only about 4% of families appear to pay an assessed contribution at or above the average cost of a private day school. Doesn't this indicate that some families who have been managing to afford private primary education are mysteriously unable to fund their children's education at a similar level once they enter CH? How does this work? I'm no mathematical genius, but to me the figures just don't seem to add up...
I dont think any of us are trying to avoid paying as much as we are able to afford, however life does become difficult when there is a disproportionate rise in outgoings
Last edited by jaspersmum on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The school's own published data suggests that no less than 20% of current pupils came from independent prep schools, yet only about 4% of families appear to pay an assessed contribution at or above the average cost of a private day school. Doesn't this indicate that some families who have been managing to afford private primary education are mysteriously unable to fund their children's education at a similar level once they enter CH? How does this work? I'm no mathematical genius, but to me the figures just don't seem to add up...
The answer in most cases are:
1) Grandparents who do not want their Grandchildren uprooted from prep school helping to pay fees
2) Prep schools with long relationships with familes giving extra time to pay the fees.
3)The selling of cars ,lack of family holidays and extreme economy measures to get to the end of prep school.
Just putting you DC through prep school doesn't mean you can afford full fees for boarding. After 8 years of paying prep school fees my DS has never flown on a plane.Our commitment to his education was paramount and a sacrifice worth paying. He has just received an offer from CH and now we have to consider if we really can afford another 7 years even with the estimated contribution.
The school's own published data suggests that no less than 20% of current pupils came from independent prep schools, yet only about 4% of families appear to pay an assessed contribution at or above the average cost of a private day school. Doesn't this indicate that some families who have been managing to afford private primary education are mysteriously unable to fund their children's education at a similar level once they enter CH? How does this work? I'm no mathematical genius, but to me the figures just don't seem to add up...
The answer in most cases are:
1) Grandparents who do not want their Grandchildren uprooted from prep school helping to pay fees
2) Prep schools with long relationships with familes giving extra time to pay the fees.
3)The selling of cars ,lack of family holidays and extreme economy measures to get to the end of prep school.
Just putting you DC through prep school doesn't mean you can afford full fees for boarding. After 8 years of paying prep school fees my DS has never flown on a plane.Our commitment to his education was paramount and a sacrifice worth paying. He has just received an offer from CH and now we have to consider if we really can afford another 7 years even with the estimated contribution.
Spot on Eagerdad, those are exactly the reasons as to how our children were able to stay on at their prep schools before going on to CH at 11. There is no way however that we could have sustained the fees to secondary level and CH at that time was a fantastic option - still is a fantastic option, just not terribly easy to afford anymore
J.R. wrote:May I just repeat my earlier comments along the lines of................
Lets hope certain people who obviously 'monitor' this site are taking note of not only existing parents of pupils and prospectice parents, BUT ALSO.... OB's that have benefited from the ethos of the School.
(Bang goes my Knighthood !)
Off topic I know, but what about Sir John for sevices to laughter?
Thou shalt not sit with statisticians nor commit a social science.
The school's own published data suggests that no less than 20% of current pupils came from independent prep schools, yet only about 4% of families appear to pay an assessed contribution at or above the average cost of a private day school. Doesn't this indicate that some families who have been managing to afford private primary education are mysteriously unable to fund their children's education at a similar level once they enter CH? How does this work? I'm no mathematical genius, but to me the figures just don't seem to add up...
The answer in most cases are:
1) Grandparents who do not want their Grandchildren uprooted from prep school helping to pay fees
2) Prep schools with long relationships with familes giving extra time to pay the fees.
3)The selling of cars ,lack of family holidays and extreme economy measures to get to the end of prep school.
Just putting you DC through prep school doesn't mean you can afford full fees for boarding. After 8 years of paying prep school fees my DS has never flown on a plane.Our commitment to his education was paramount and a sacrifice worth paying. He has just received an offer from CH and now we have to consider if we really can afford another 7 years even with the estimated contribution.eagerdad
Eagerdad, first - congratulations to your DS! I do hope you'll be able to accept the offer.
I can understand how paying fees for prep school must have been a struggle, and heaven knows I do sympathise! And I certainly wasn't suggesting that putting a child through prep school would indicate the ability to afford full fees for boarding. But I am still baffled by the statistics. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the situation when I calculate that for many parents the assessed fees at CH must be less than they have been spending in order to fund the fees for an average independent day school? Obviously everyone's circumstances are different, but I just wonder whether this doesn't make the decision to accept a place at CH rather easier than it is for families who don't have luxuries such as cars and holidays to sacrifice, and for whom the choice might boil down to paying for education or paying the mortgage.
ailurophile wrote: Yet every year a letter comes home inviting us to send our children on the annual school ski trip - at a cost this year of nearly £800 per head - which we are warned will be oversubscribed!
You've taken the words out of my mouth! I'd never be able to afford those trips, even given the chance to pay in instalments over a year!
All I can say is that our net income has just gone down by £104 per WEEK as of February, our fees have been recalculate for the summer term (so when is that May?) and they've only gone down by £100 per month go figure!!!
I've also worked out that because we recieve enhanced CTC - appalling pay & 4 young children that once I earn over £50 per week then I'll be working to be £2.30 per hour better off excluding travel costs etc
Yes I'm worried that we are going to struggle to get her to the end of her GCSEs
I am reading these and have huge sympathy; I am in a more fortunate position than most of you because my DS got a place under the West's Gift which means that 50% of our assessed fees are paid by the West's Foundation. This is purely because of where we live - the West's Gift is available to children who live in the areas of Newbury, Reading & Twickenham. As it is, I do struggle to pay for all the things he needs and I am unable to help my other (older) child out when she needs it. I don't know how the rest of you manage it.
There are all sorts of foibles in the calculations; I was slightly surprised recently to learn that they "keep" a percentage of the Child Benefit ie: they think that for the weeks the child is at CH you should "surrender" that to the school. If that makes sense - don't ask me how they do it, I am extremely bad with figures. I think they only ignore the Child Benefit as income for the holiday period. I can just about get to the figure that they use as assessed income but I have no understanding of how they arrive at the fee payable and can't help feeling that the method used should be transparent.
Obviously, the system seriously penalises those with large housing costs. That's a really difficult one - if someone takes on an enormous mortgage, should the cost of their child's education be more heavily subsidised than someone who has a smaller mortgage?
I do agree that the 12.5% is completely unrealistic particularly for most people living in the South East. I have however heard that the percentage allowance is being increased, possibly by quite a bit. Please don't ask me who told me (maybe I shouldn't know) but it was a pretty impeccable source. I'm not sure when it would come into effect tho. Hopefully very soon.
