Are we alone?

[YadaYada]

As a prospective parent who was quite eagerly waiting for the postman to deliver the results, I find this thread terrifying.

If my son gets in I had anticiapted losing luxuries and cutting my cloth to meet the fees, but I was not expecting to be put on the breadline.

I struggled so much financially in his first 5 years that I vowed I would never do that again as I found it too stressful. I cant do anything about my teachers pension contributions and I already live in the cheapest type of housing in our area. My mortgage payment even so is 25% of my income.

I'm now dreading the letter.

[jhopgood]

I have no idea how the basis for the calculations are arrived at, and assume they have changed over the years.
It would be useful if someone in the know could explain that, but probably, the people in contact with parents merely apply the formula, which they have no power to change.
There must be a reason for only allowing 12.5% as mortgage payments, probably related to tax deductions or something similar. I must say, it appears a similar formula to that applied by my employers when we had to do the cost of living report so that we could justify COL raises. (I lived abroad for all of my working life). The application method was so far from reality that most reports had inflated items. Those with power to authorise raises (so called Human Resources), used external agencies as a comparison, who also appeared to be detached from life, as it appears, are the powers that be in the Foundation.
I can understand that they have a formula, applicable to all, and parents should go in with their eyes (and wallets) open, but I would have thought that changing the rules because of a mistake on their part, left the whole thing open to negotiation. Not something they would like to see in the public eye.
Spreading the shortfall out over the remaining period of the child's term at school must be a minimum, and given the fact that now students get loans for university, maybe something similar could apply.
Your child will probably have a loan for that so we are really talking about the amount of the loan, as I would guess that parental guarantees must be in there somewhere.
CH has helped develop some good brains, some of whom probably sit in a position of power in the school, that more imaginative ideas should be available instead of the short answer, which seems to be, pay up or get out.

[ailurophile]

Spreading the shortfall out over the remaining period of the child's term at school must be a minimum, and given the fact that now students get loans for university, maybe something similar could apply.
Your child will probably have a loan for that so we are really talking about the amount of the loan, as I would guess that parental guarantees must be in there somewhere.

Sorry if I'm being dim here (not unlikely!) but are you suggesting that the Foundation might lend CH pupils money to pay for their fees - which are set by the Foundation? My head is starting to spin! And if families are expected to borrow, i.e. to spend money now which they haven't actually got (and look where that's got the economy!), then shouldn't this apply equally to all families and not just to those on 'higher incomes'?

Heaven knows the thought of future university costs is already worrying enough!

[Mid A 15]

If The Foundation has made mistakes in previous calculations as has been alleged then, given the charitable ethos of CH, any attempts to recoup these errors should be done gradually and reasonably. A 16% fee increase is not reasonable when inflation and thus payrises (if lucky enough to qualify for such a thing) purports to be around the 3-4% mark.

Certainly The Foundation should not be threatening expulsion for non-payment if the situation has arisen through errors it has made.

I should be interested to hear the other side of the story.

[jaspersmum]

I do hope you are able to find a solution

[YadaYada]

I feel a bit upset by this to be honest. Of course, I want my son to get in but am now dreading it. The estimate they sent me last year seemed ok but what you are describing is no way to live.

It would seem to be though that there must be many more parents out there in a similar position. I dont know how you tap into these parents but I imagine that it will only be by mass parent discord that the school might take notice.

Yada

[lonelymom]

Am I right in thinking that the sudden increase in fees is because CH realised that they were assessing the fees on salaries received AFTER pensions were deducted? And that certain employers, eg the NHS, insist that it's employees are in the pension scheme? This appears to have only come to light fairly recently, but CH has said that it won't backdate the increase because it was their mistake, but has reassessed the future fees. There doesn't seem to be a solution that will please everyone. It certainly isn't NHS employees fault that they HAVE to be in the pension, on the other hand it isn't fair that their pension contributions are treated any differently to those in other professions. I'm sure there are parents with children at CH who have had to freeze their pension contributions or even opt out of pension schemes in order to pay fees, and who will be living on a very tight budget later in life.

Is there definitely no way that those affected can opt out of the pension scheme, or have deductions at a lower rate?

[Momto2]

I have worked for the NHS for nearly 20 years and have opted out of their pension scheme so I'm not sure where the statutory pension thing that other posters mention is coming from

[jhopgood]

Spreading the shortfall out over the remaining period of the child's term at school must be a minimum, and given the fact that now students get loans for university, maybe something similar could apply.
Your child will probably have a loan for that so we are really talking about the amount of the loan, as I would guess that parental guarantees must be in there somewhere.

Sorry if I'm being dim here (not unlikely!) but are you suggesting that the Foundation might lend CH pupils money to pay for their fees - which are set by the Foundation? My head is starting to spin! And if families are expected to borrow, i.e. to spend money now which they haven't actually got (and look where that's got the economy!), then shouldn't this apply equally to all families and not just to those on 'higher incomes'?

Heaven knows the thought of future university costs is already worrying enough!

I was merely trying to say, obviously unclearly, that if the sudden increase has to be paid, and you want to pay it (to keep your child in school), but that the time frame is unacceptable, then another solution must be found. A solution that is acceptable to both parties.
I just feel strongly that once a child is in CH, then any financial grief should be put on the back burner, by whatever means possible.

[dinahcat]

This is all very worrying and does some what take the shine off waiting for a positive result from the assessment. It would be really awful to get a place and then after the financial assessment see that you couldn't afford it.There seem to be a regular number of guests on here which could well be prospective parents. After reading this thread I imagine a lot of them would be put off and take their chances with a full bursary from another independent.It is unrealistic to think that rent or a mortgage can only be 12% of income .This is way out of date. Also it is unreasonable to say that pension contributions should be included in assessed icome. A pension is not equivalent to doing with out holidays or cars and the like. It's a bit Victorian to expect parents to have no pension because the school is so great that any price is worth paying. I also think that mistakes made by the Counting House should be absorbed and not added to the fees.
I think I'm ranting a bit and my child doesn't even have a place(waiting for the postman) but there are a lot of intelligent people on here and there is always something you can do. Lets start with some one on here who knows someone who knows someone who can help. Maybe an OB with a bit of clout /energy/nerve who would come out and throw some light on the matter and show parents the way forward. There seem to be too many parents who are taking their children away purely for financial reasons.
There is a thread some where on here which is on the same topic which says that if you present your accounts in person at the Counting House you may have some joy. That would surely be a good place to start.

[ailurophile]

I feel a bit upset by this to be honest. Of course, I want my son to get in but am now dreading it. The estimate they sent me last year seemed ok but what you are describing is no way to live.

It would seem to be though that there must be many more parents out there in a similar position. I dont know how you tap into these parents but I imagine that it will only be by mass parent discord that the school might take notice.

Yada

Yada, the last thing I meant to do when I opened this thread was to alarm prospective parents! Remember that everyone posting about their financial difficulties here is anxious primarily because they really want their children to be able to stay at CH - it's a great school, and if your son is offered a place you should both be delighted! Every family's circumstances are different, and many pupils enjoy the benefit of a CH education at little or no cost - for those on lower incomes this offers an opportunity to improve rather than reduce their standard of living.

But you're right, there would also appear to be other parents in a similar position to mine, which is what I set out to establish; and we only know about the ones who have discovered this forum! My concern is that there is no official forum for parents to get together and feed back discontent (or praise!) to the School or Foundation. Does anyone have any ideas on how we can get our voices heard, and our concerns recognised?

[CHAZ]

is there a Parents Commitee to the school or something? Having read through all this it is clear that there is a serious disfunction in the Counting House and that communication is quasi non existant. Maybe the new Clerk (is s/he on board now) will make an effort to instill more parent communication on this matter which seems to have derailed quite significantly since the 80s...

I know that in my old school of Oakham there was a HM/Parent commitee whose role was to upfeed all issues....

[Dusty]

This may be useful in working out whether CH rates are generous or not. It's a link to the bursaries calculation at the City of London School for Girls, a day school where fees are about £12,500 a year. It seems to allow for pensions and for mortgage or rent.
http://www.clsg.org.uk/entrants_scholar ... saries.php

We're thinking about CH for our son. I was surprised by the contribution scale and how quickly it rises from the nil contribution rate. Put it this way - I'm well above the scale where we would pay the maximum and frankly to pay £21,500 will cause us financial stretch so I have no idea how people earning a lot less manage to pay even half that.

[jhopgood]

is there a Parents Committee to the school or something? Having read through all this it is clear that there is a serious dysfunction in the Counting House and that communication is quasi non existent. Maybe the new Clerk (is s/he on board now) will make an effort to instill more parent communication on this matter which seems to have derailed quite significantly since the 80s...

This may add to the confusion, but it should be remembered that the School and Foundation are separate charities, although they should probably work as one.
For reasons that I do not understand, the Admissions policy is run by the Foundation and not by the School.
The new Clerk had until about today to apply for the position, so I assume, it will be a while until the selection process has been completed and he is in position to look at these problems.

[lonelymom]

Also it is unreasonable to say that pension contributions should be included in assessed icome. A pension is not equivalent to doing with out holidays or cars and the like.

How can pension contributions NOT be included in assessed income? Some people don't have pension plans because they can't afford them, and know that they will be living on just a state pension when they are older. But if pension contributions are going to be taken into account when assessing fees then those people might as well start a pension plan because they will have nothing to lose! In which case it will be CH that will be losing out because more people will be paying less fees!