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David
ASSOCIATED COSTS
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ASSOCIATED COSTS
I am starting research into the "associated costs" of a pupil at C.H. By this I mean unavoidable costs outside the parental contribution to school fees. This might include: compulsory clothing items (eg, shoes, but what else?); pocket money; travel to and from school (how often?); musical tuition; purchase of books not provided by the school; school outings; but there may be others of which I am unaware. My aim is to produce a list and see how much it all comes to.
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David
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David
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
i will say now the answer is - less than the local comp - always has been always will be.
Uniform costs are less as no need for trousers shirts etc, shoes are the same costs, sports clothing is the same, costs of towels/flannels/hankies (assuming 12 white handkerchiefs still on list) is negligable £10 a year maybe.
School trips are definitely no more and unless things have changed ones needed for courses (ie Geography field trip) are means assisted so when compared to our local comp cheaper.
House pocket money is no more than you would be spending on pocket money anyway
More books provided by CH than your local comp does.
Travel depends on what you do on leave weekends/days but even 4 trips to scotland each term is less than daily bus fairs or petrol to local school if you do not live within walking distance especially as can be booked in advance
Music tuition is not compulsory but I can say that tuition outside CH costs us £130 for a 10 week term which provides 1 40min lesson a week plus access to ensembles, theory and choirs at a local music school/club on sat mornings, a 2nd instrument is the same price.
If you are doing a comparison then you really need to find out the cost of school meals at a comp (c£2 here) and estimate how much a teenager costs to feed for a term.
An extra cost of CH is greater childcare costs due to longer holidays until they are old enough to be left alone
Uniform costs are less as no need for trousers shirts etc, shoes are the same costs, sports clothing is the same, costs of towels/flannels/hankies (assuming 12 white handkerchiefs still on list) is negligable £10 a year maybe.
School trips are definitely no more and unless things have changed ones needed for courses (ie Geography field trip) are means assisted so when compared to our local comp cheaper.
House pocket money is no more than you would be spending on pocket money anyway
More books provided by CH than your local comp does.
Travel depends on what you do on leave weekends/days but even 4 trips to scotland each term is less than daily bus fairs or petrol to local school if you do not live within walking distance especially as can be booked in advance
Music tuition is not compulsory but I can say that tuition outside CH costs us £130 for a 10 week term which provides 1 40min lesson a week plus access to ensembles, theory and choirs at a local music school/club on sat mornings, a 2nd instrument is the same price.
If you are doing a comparison then you really need to find out the cost of school meals at a comp (c£2 here) and estimate how much a teenager costs to feed for a term.
An extra cost of CH is greater childcare costs due to longer holidays until they are old enough to be left alone
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
Thanks - good points and well made.
David
David
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
The post from Wurzel is so out of touch with reality that I thought I had better post.
It may well be that for some people the travel is less that the bus fares to the local comp, but it certainly isn't for us. Our local fares are 40p each way for a child (so £12 every three weeks). In comparison, the CH leaves are three weeks apart and the petrol cost is about £50 return, with train fares for just him being about the same.
Music lessons are about the same provided you get them all. When the school closes due to snow, swine flu, or even if they just have music exams that week, then you are still charged for a full term.
The CH school sports kit costs far more than you would pay at the "local comp", it is only really comparable with the local private school.
It may well be that for some people the travel is less that the bus fares to the local comp, but it certainly isn't for us. Our local fares are 40p each way for a child (so £12 every three weeks). In comparison, the CH leaves are three weeks apart and the petrol cost is about £50 return, with train fares for just him being about the same.
Music lessons are about the same provided you get them all. When the school closes due to snow, swine flu, or even if they just have music exams that week, then you are still charged for a full term.
The CH school sports kit costs far more than you would pay at the "local comp", it is only really comparable with the local private school.
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
I agree with some of Wurzel's points, but also some of KenHo's, so here are my thoughts.
Uniform costs - agreed, no real uniform costs so that's cheaper than the local school.
School trips - as far as I know these aren't actually means-tested as such, although they are certainly cheaper than the trips that friends tell me they have had to pay for, so again, cheaper than the local school.
House pocket money is a contribution towards 'in-house' nights, birthday goodies and lots of other fun stuff so well worth the money, but I wouldn't say it would normally be instead of the normal pocket money kids get, I'm pretty certain that most of the kids at CH get pocket money too. But don't most state schools ask for 'PTA Funds' on a yearly basis now, rather than have fetes and things? Those two probably cancel each other out, so probably not much difference between the schools.
I've never had to provide any books, text or exercise, so definitely a saving there compared to what friends have paid out.
Our travel costs are definitely more, mainly because a yearly bus pass for children here is £50, which is not much more than it costs me in petrol for one leave weekend. Train travel from CH to our local station is actually more expensive than by car, so no saving there. Obviously I don't have all the running-around to and from friends houses that I would have if my children went to the local school, but since the buses are fairly regular I probably wouldn't do too much of that anyway. So CH is much more expensive for us than the local school.
Music tuition costs vary according to your fee contribution, so could be free, or could be fairly expensive. For us it is cheaper than it would be outside of CH, so we save there.
I agree with Wurzel about the lunch money saving, but don't forget to factor in tuck costs. There's also a saving because my girls aren't wanting to go into town after school with their friends and hang out around Burger King or milkshake bar.
The sports kit is very expensive at CH, but the price comparison depends on which local school we're talking about. The local comp, where a logo top is just about all that is compulsory, with any shorts, and socks, and tracksuit, makes CH seem extortionate. But the local grammar, with a logo top, and logo tracksuit and shorts, bit stricter on socks and trainers etc, still makes CH expensive, but not quite as much.
Foureyes, our biggest expense by far is the travel to and from CH, but I am very aware that some parents pay even more than us, while some live locally and have no extra expense, so for your comparison, this associated cost will vary greatly.
Uniform costs - agreed, no real uniform costs so that's cheaper than the local school.
School trips - as far as I know these aren't actually means-tested as such, although they are certainly cheaper than the trips that friends tell me they have had to pay for, so again, cheaper than the local school.
House pocket money is a contribution towards 'in-house' nights, birthday goodies and lots of other fun stuff so well worth the money, but I wouldn't say it would normally be instead of the normal pocket money kids get, I'm pretty certain that most of the kids at CH get pocket money too. But don't most state schools ask for 'PTA Funds' on a yearly basis now, rather than have fetes and things? Those two probably cancel each other out, so probably not much difference between the schools.
I've never had to provide any books, text or exercise, so definitely a saving there compared to what friends have paid out.
Our travel costs are definitely more, mainly because a yearly bus pass for children here is £50, which is not much more than it costs me in petrol for one leave weekend. Train travel from CH to our local station is actually more expensive than by car, so no saving there. Obviously I don't have all the running-around to and from friends houses that I would have if my children went to the local school, but since the buses are fairly regular I probably wouldn't do too much of that anyway. So CH is much more expensive for us than the local school.
Music tuition costs vary according to your fee contribution, so could be free, or could be fairly expensive. For us it is cheaper than it would be outside of CH, so we save there.
I agree with Wurzel about the lunch money saving, but don't forget to factor in tuck costs. There's also a saving because my girls aren't wanting to go into town after school with their friends and hang out around Burger King or milkshake bar.
The sports kit is very expensive at CH, but the price comparison depends on which local school we're talking about. The local comp, where a logo top is just about all that is compulsory, with any shorts, and socks, and tracksuit, makes CH seem extortionate. But the local grammar, with a logo top, and logo tracksuit and shorts, bit stricter on socks and trainers etc, still makes CH expensive, but not quite as much.
Foureyes, our biggest expense by far is the travel to and from CH, but I am very aware that some parents pay even more than us, while some live locally and have no extra expense, so for your comparison, this associated cost will vary greatly.
lonelymom 
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
bus fare around here is £1.80 each way £3.50 return child fare stops at 12 and a weekly pass is 7 days for the price of 5 (£16), music tuition is charged on a termly basis and again if shut by snow no refund.
Sports kit - not sure of local school prices but our children play Rugby for a local club and child size shirts are £35-42, shorts £20, socks £15 (all Kooga) + tracksuits etc how does that compare with CH ?
I do seem to be out of touch on pocket money - when I was at Ch until I was a senior I had £5 a term pocket money (not including house funds) and when I was senior i got a £10 allowance but had to buy all my own clothes (except farm working clothes) from that. My 10 year old gets no pocket money at home but he does have a subscription to New Scientist (his request not me). I guess he would want phone tops ups if he got a phone but otherwise if he gets in he will have to do as I did live of the tuck he takes back for 1 week and be frugal the rest of the time
academic type trips when i was at CH were funded 0/25/50/75 or 100% by the school dependant upon fee level. In our local comp you are expected to go on 2 or 3 trips for various subjects by the time you reach GCSE and the geography one we were told was "about £400" all in. The primary school is worse - this week for example our daughter is being taken on a compulsory trip to the local football club as they have ties with the secondary school (sports specialist) the permission slip has printed on it - I give permission blah blah and enclose the £10 voluntary contribution to pay for transport etc - it is most definately not viewed as voluntary by the school and we get several of those per term which for 3 children really adds up (not to mention trying selling glowsticks at the school disco bought at 30 for £1 for 50p each)
Sports kit - not sure of local school prices but our children play Rugby for a local club and child size shirts are £35-42, shorts £20, socks £15 (all Kooga) + tracksuits etc how does that compare with CH ?
I do seem to be out of touch on pocket money - when I was at Ch until I was a senior I had £5 a term pocket money (not including house funds) and when I was senior i got a £10 allowance but had to buy all my own clothes (except farm working clothes) from that. My 10 year old gets no pocket money at home but he does have a subscription to New Scientist (his request not me). I guess he would want phone tops ups if he got a phone but otherwise if he gets in he will have to do as I did live of the tuck he takes back for 1 week and be frugal the rest of the time
academic type trips when i was at CH were funded 0/25/50/75 or 100% by the school dependant upon fee level. In our local comp you are expected to go on 2 or 3 trips for various subjects by the time you reach GCSE and the geography one we were told was "about £400" all in. The primary school is worse - this week for example our daughter is being taken on a compulsory trip to the local football club as they have ties with the secondary school (sports specialist) the permission slip has printed on it - I give permission blah blah and enclose the £10 voluntary contribution to pay for transport etc - it is most definately not viewed as voluntary by the school and we get several of those per term which for 3 children really adds up (not to mention trying selling glowsticks at the school disco bought at 30 for £1 for 50p each)
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
Just looked on broadbridges web site and house rugby shirts are almost exactly same price as we get Rugby shirts for at club.
What is the kit requirement now - 7 years of reading the packing list means i remember; It used to be i think
1 house, 1 blue 1 white (became gold) rugby shirt ,
2 blue shorts,
3 blue rugby socks,
1 pair white shorts,
1 gym t-shirt,
2 pairs trainers 1 outdoor 1 non marking sole for indoor.
1 pair rugby boots with correct kite marked studs
1 shoe cleaning kit
12 Handkerchiefs (white cotton)
1 Jumper (UF and above) - juniors could get a grey school one from Matron
1 blanket (optional)
+ In summer 2 pairs grey trousers or cricket flannels and 3 white collared shirts. 1 tracksuit school pattern available tuck shop.
What is the kit requirement now - 7 years of reading the packing list means i remember; It used to be i think
1 house, 1 blue 1 white (became gold) rugby shirt ,
2 blue shorts,
3 blue rugby socks,
1 pair white shorts,
1 gym t-shirt,
2 pairs trainers 1 outdoor 1 non marking sole for indoor.
1 pair rugby boots with correct kite marked studs
1 shoe cleaning kit
12 Handkerchiefs (white cotton)
1 Jumper (UF and above) - juniors could get a grey school one from Matron
1 blanket (optional)
+ In summer 2 pairs grey trousers or cricket flannels and 3 white collared shirts. 1 tracksuit school pattern available tuck shop.
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
Every 3 weeks? That's a lot of leave weekends! I don't want to hark back again to 'the old days' but once a month would surely be ample, after all we survived with just a long Sat (10am till 7pm max) in the whole term; and that was without all the extra curricular activities that go on now. The advantages are that it would be less tiring and less costly for those that have to travel far, plus less unsettling for the newbies and those who are homesick.
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
I guess that is what leave weekends do - when it was leave days most people not living locally would come to visit their child and just go to Horsham. Definitely even late 80's just post merger leave days were after 3 lessons on Sat morning until 7:15pm or if you went Sunday instead it was Breakfast to chapel. Lent half term was never a full week either.
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
I am intrigued by this "every three weeks" business, which has come as a considerable surprise. Let me ask for it to be put another way.
A. Assuming that there are three journeys in each year home-to-school for the start of each term, and three school-to-home at the end of each term, that's six journeys in an academic year. Presumably, the number of these week-ends in any one term depends on the length of the term, so, how many more journeys are there in the course of a year?
B. What is the length of absence for these term-time week-ends?
C. Finally, what happens if parents live too far away to make such term-time travel impracticable. Can the child remain at school?
David
A. Assuming that there are three journeys in each year home-to-school for the start of each term, and three school-to-home at the end of each term, that's six journeys in an academic year. Presumably, the number of these week-ends in any one term depends on the length of the term, so, how many more journeys are there in the course of a year?
B. What is the length of absence for these term-time week-ends?
C. Finally, what happens if parents live too far away to make such term-time travel impracticable. Can the child remain at school?
David
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
In the school year there are 3 half-term holidays, 3 end of term holidays and 6 leave weekends. Leave weekend starts on Friday afternoon, approximately 2pm, and ends on Sunday evening, approximately 8pm. Children used to be able to stay at school, and in emergencies probably still could, but it is generally accepted that all children need to leave the site now and if they live too far away they tend to go to stay with friends.
lonelymom
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sejintenej
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
Seems that the authorities are either out of touch or are admitting rich kids.lonelymom wrote:In the school year there are....... and 6 leave weekends. Leave weekend starts on Friday afternoon, approximately 2pm, and ends on Sunday evening, approximately 8pm. Children used to be able to stay at school, and in emergencies probably still could, but it is generally accepted that all children need to leave the site now and if they live too far away they tend to go to stay with friends.
Out of my annual allowance, all but £6 went on the three return fares home/school. £4.50 was the compulsory "pocket money"** and I had £1.50 left for clothes, food on the 9 hour train trip each way, Xmas presents etc. etc.
Staying with friends - yes to Lake District, yes to Hong Kong, yes to Dublin - such rules at that time would have been a joke but then when did headmasters listen to sense?
Things have obviously changed
Quite seriously, with one day and a half off for half term but working half the night and weekends we struggled to cover the requirements for GCE; how on earth are pupils expected to cope with so much time off?
** I even has Mr Jones omn my casee because I never took out any pocket money and when eventually I was "persuaded" to bought a penny's worth of sweets they were so bad I had to throw them away.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
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NEILL THE NOTORIOUS
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
Yes --- things HAVE changed --- but it is a different School.
Food, Clothing, Education,(In all it's guises) Sports and Clothing, thereto, Transport to and from Victoria Station by Train, Beginning and end of Terms ONLY ---- all means tested and in Many, Many, cases FREE.
Extras -- in my case == Music lessons, and pocket money ! and my Ration Book and Clothing Coupons !!
I shall now have an Evening of Nostalgia and Whisky !
Food, Clothing, Education,(In all it's guises) Sports and Clothing, thereto, Transport to and from Victoria Station by Train, Beginning and end of Terms ONLY ---- all means tested and in Many, Many, cases FREE.
Extras -- in my case == Music lessons, and pocket money ! and my Ration Book and Clothing Coupons !!
I shall now have an Evening of Nostalgia and Whisky !
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ailurophile
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
I see from the Headmaster's end-of-term letter that more full fee paying pupils will be admitted next year from Germany and Hong Kong. Presumably the previous practice of keeping a House open over leave weekends for those who cannot go home will have to be reintroduced!Lonelymom pointed out:
Leave weekend starts on Friday afternoon, approximately 2pm, and ends on Sunday evening, approximately 8pm. Children used to be able to stay at school, and in emergencies probably still could, but it is generally accepted that all children need to leave the site now and if they live too far away they tend to go to stay with friends.
Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS
I tend to agree with some of Wurzel's points. Certainly I save on food shopping when he is at school! Sports kit would be about the same.
Music - I pay £220 a term so if Wurzel is only paying £130 then I guess he wins on that one!
I live 3 hours from school but my Dad lives about half an hour away. So at Leave Weekends I drive down and we spend the weekend with him to keep the travel costs down. We only live 5 minutes from the local school and walking distance to town so I do spend more on petrol going to Sussex every 3 weeks (more in the summer term when Parents Day is thrown in and also more when he plays in a concert - as I like to see him taking part).
Otherwise associated costs are no different than if he was at home.
Are you just curious or do you have a specific reason for being interested in these associated costs?
Music - I pay £220 a term so if Wurzel is only paying £130 then I guess he wins on that one!
I live 3 hours from school but my Dad lives about half an hour away. So at Leave Weekends I drive down and we spend the weekend with him to keep the travel costs down. We only live 5 minutes from the local school and walking distance to town so I do spend more on petrol going to Sussex every 3 weeks (more in the summer term when Parents Day is thrown in and also more when he plays in a concert - as I like to see him taking part).
Otherwise associated costs are no different than if he was at home.
Are you just curious or do you have a specific reason for being interested in these associated costs?