ASSOCIATED COSTS

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Foureyes
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by Foureyes » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:34 pm

Are you just curious or do you have a specific reason for being interested in these associated costs?
I am interested because I believe that the school is losing its way and pricing the most needy parents - who are its target population - out of sight. Thus, schools are often judged and compared by their termly fees, but in my experience it is the "hidden extras" which cause the real agony. I know that when my children were at school (not Christ's Hospital) I could budget for the fees (which were bad enough) with reasonable confidence,but it was the extras which were impossible to forecast. I remember with great clarity a trip by the school orchestra to the USA - how do you tell your child that he/she cannot go because you just cannot afford it and then discover that he/she is the only one not going? I note a tendency for schools to transfer costs from termly fees to extras to make things look good on the prospectus - I have a bad feeling that C.H. is going the same way.
For example, these travel costs must be a real pain - but they are not on the termly fees - I rest my case.
:shock:
Last edited by Foureyes on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by wurzel » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:24 pm

We have just acepted a scholarship place for son on a brand new special mathematics course at Wells cathedral School so having got their kit list etc I can compare to CH & Reading School (local grammar we are just about to turn down) - I think CH sits in the middle

For Wells (Head Mrs Caincross - Ex CH staff)

Transport costs will hit us as same set up as CH beginning of term, 3 weeks, leave weekend, 3 weeks half term, 3 weeks leave weekedn, 3 weeks end of term (except they have 2 week half terms and pretend it is a 6 term year)

We asked about "extras" and the school bursar picked a couple of bills at random of year 7 pupils - it looks to be aboutn £250 per term which included items like a logo'd house hoodie at £18, extra dance lessons (not likely with my son), educational trips & weekend boarder activities, ingredients for food tech and house funds. Children who bring electrical items to school have them PAT tested for free, Windows PC's need to be checked by school IT dept and will have school antivirus/internet security added for which there is a small yearly charge. Pocket money for lower school all via housemaster capped at £1.50 per week with children not meant to have access to any other bank accounts. Due to the specialist music college part of the school having lots of people on government funded music scholarships there are a lot of non-locals from poorer families like CH as well as locals with more money so they are careful to have a "level playing field".

Uniform wise the sports kit was similar to CH in volume except they want a hockey stick for easter term. Prices seemed similar or maybe a tad cheaper and gym socks/shorts etc not logo'd and can be bought whereever you like.

Big difference was rest of uniform, less prescriptive than i remember CH, shoes are just listed as black/stout, coat to go over school blazer (only big expense) just needs to be "dark blue long enough to cover blazer, can be kagool type", trousers just listed as mid grey 2 pairs, shirts cotton 3 grey 1 white. Extensive 2nd hand rail in school shop.

Class sizes range from 7 in the specialist maths group (3 extra maths lessons a week working on a broader curriculum to stretch them with lessons from a visiting Professor of Mathematical education each Friday)) to I think the max is 15 for non streamed subjects like geography. (musicians also follow a specialist timetable)

Local state Grammar

New blazer this year so no 2nd hand option - price not even announced yet and only available in local outfitters, all sportswear crested and expensive. Coats must be Woolen dark overcoat. Extras include even having to buy lab coats and safety specs through the school, lots of need to buy text books as other than core texts they are not able to be taken out of school. Big push/expectation for you to sign up to pay a monthly DD to the schools foundation and seperately to the PTA, most school trips charged for even when compulsory part of curiculum. Lots of pressure to go on sports tours/ski trips etc at high prices + associated commemorative clothing.
Buses as stated before expensive and even though only 3 miles to get to school for 8.20 registration would need to leave home at 7.45am with a 10min walk 1 end 5 mins other, Cycling hard because as well as the traffic issues there is nowhere to change/store cycling gear other than a helmet (small lockers), refrectory not finished being built yet so currently no real hot food option and packed lunches eaten under canopies like a pub beer garden unless such inclement weather they are allowed to eat in form rooms.

Class size 30 for everything at year 7 starts to drop once you reach option stage (yr10)

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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by sejintenej » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:07 pm

I had a per annum allowance of £25 (£425 in today's money) to cover travel £357, GWR charge for taking my trunk to/from school (amount forgotten), compulsory pocket money of £25.50 plus all clothing (home and school), pens and pencils, christmas presents...... - absolutely everything. It seems to me that the school is forcing extra costs on pupils and parents. The question is "are those charges necessary?"
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by J.R. » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:49 am

sejintenej wrote:I had a per annum allowance of £25 (£425 in today's money) to cover travel £357, GWR charge for taking my trunk to/from school (amount forgotten), compulsory pocket money of £25.50 plus all clothing (home and school), pens and pencils, christmas presents...... - absolutely everything. It seems to me that the school is forcing extra costs on pupils and parents. The question is "are those charges necessary?"

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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by jtaylor » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:31 pm

If Leave Weekends reverted to Leave Days (why did they change?) then the necessity to go home would be removed - and thus halve the travel costs for those driving to pick their child up? Every three weeks there's no need for a full weekend away?

I seem to recall most of my leave days becoming absorbed with sports within a couple of years (including away games), and the highlight was that parents came to watch specifically those days, and we'd go out afterwards somewhere depending on the venue etc. Spending time with them on the day was important - but having to go home wasn't necessarily.
(they brought our corgi with them - and the welcome he gave me and my brother was the same regardless of whether at home, or on the side of a rugby pitch!)
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by Great Plum » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:01 pm

Did they not change because it is now considered 'wrong' to have a child away from home for a half term...
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by ailurophile » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:24 pm

Did they not change because it is now considered 'wrong' to have a child away from home for a half term...
As I pointed out earlier on this thread, things might have to change back again for the pupils now being recruited to CH from Hong Kong; presumably they will simply not be able to get home for leave weekends, however 'wrong' this might be!

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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by Katharine » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:39 pm

ailurophile wrote:As I pointed out earlier on this thread, things might have to change back again for the pupils now being recruited to CH from Hong Kong; presumably they will simply not be able to get home for leave weekends, however 'wrong' this might be!
Our boys were in boarding school in UK when we were in Borneo. They had to have a UK Guardian and had to go somewhere at half term - no leave weekends that I knew of. They went to their grandmothers who spoilt them rotten! I would have thought any CH pupil from Hong Kong would need a UK guardian, whether they would have relatives willing to take them I don't know, if not they would possibly go with schoolfriends.
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Great Plum
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by Great Plum » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:13 pm

When we are living at another school, my parents were guardians for my cousins who were at Charterhouse and Roedean. My uncle and aunt lived in a variety of places in the middle east at the time. My cousins used to come home for half term etc...
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by sejintenej » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:26 pm

sejintenej wrote:I had a per annum allowance of £25 (£425 in today's money) to cover travel £357, GWR charge for taking my trunk to/from school (amount forgotten), compulsory pocket money of £25.50 plus all clothing (home and school), pens and pencils, christmas presents...... - absolutely everything. It seems to me that the school is forcing extra costs on pupils and parents. The question is "are those charges necessary?"
I have just seen a post about mouth guards for heaven's sake. What are they doing with these kids - staff fighting? sado masochism? catch the bullet in your teeth? We played rugby, cricket, boxed, and everything else and nobody except perhaps professional boxers had even heard of mouth guards. A boy died from a cracked skull as a result of playing rugby but we didn't have helmets nor medical attendance (indeed when it was required and requested it was refused). See my last phrase above.
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by J.R. » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:54 pm

It's all 'Elf and Insanity', David.

I've just completed an advanced Safety Sports First Aid Course with the FA.

You wouldn't believe just how much times have changed !
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by englishangel » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:26 pm

You may have noticed I have not commented much on here recently and it because of the some of these antediluvian comments which are not good for my blood pressure.

I feel I must apologise for the comments of my generation above.

Lets all go back to the original CH in the sixteenth century where they only took orphans and the children were prepared for a life in service and were fed bread and dripping (if they were lucky).

Guys, this is the 21st century.

Please no more "not in my time"
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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by sejintenej » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:11 pm

Katharine wrote:
ailurophile wrote:As I pointed out earlier on this thread, things might have to change back again for the pupils now being recruited to CH from Hong Kong; presumably they will simply not be able to get home for leave weekends, however 'wrong' this might be!
Our boys were in boarding school in UK when we were in Borneo. They had to have a UK Guardian and had to go somewhere at half term - no leave weekends that I knew of. They went to their grandmothers who spoilt them rotten! I would have thought any CH pupil from Hong Kong would need a UK guardian, whether they would have relatives willing to take them I don't know, if not they would possibly go with schoolfriends.
We had this situation when HRH got her crown - the school closed for about 3 days. There was another similar situation (details of which escape me) and as far as I know those who remained were moved into one house and looked after by a teacher and spouse. Wouldn't happen now - the union would close every school in the country in protest. A year or two back ISTR Asian or Chicken Flu closed the school - what happened then?

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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by sejintenej » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:18 pm

englishangel wrote:You may have noticed I have not commented much on here recently and it because of the some of these antediluvian comments which are not good for my blood pressure.

I feel I must apologise for the comments of my generation above.

Lets all go back to the original CH in the sixteenth century where they only took orphans and the children were prepared for a life in service and were fed bread and dripping (if they were lucky).

Guys, this is the 21st century.

Please no more "not in my time"
Mary, we have had this argument before. The army and I think the Police have had to drop their entry standards because today's youth is simply not capable of reaching the old standards. Where, Mary, do you draw the line? We had an MP who got caught in the expenses scandal and sent to prison; despite having been booted out he considered it his right to continue claiming for expenses. Think of an army whose med argue over orders because their human rights might conceivably be breached by having to go into an area which has possible dangers! That is what we are facing. I don't agree with some of the past excesses but IMHO things have gone far too namby pamby.

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Re: ASSOCIATED COSTS

Post by anniexf » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:58 pm

sejintenej wrote: The army and I think the Police have had to drop their entry standards because today's youth is simply not capable of reaching the old standards. Where, Mary, do you draw the line? We had an MP who got caught in the expenses scandal and sent to prison; despite having been booted out he considered it his right to continue claiming for expenses. Think of an army whose med argue over orders because their human rights might conceivably be breached by having to go into an area which has possible dangers! That is what we are facing. I don't agree with some of the past excesses but IMHO things have gone far too namby pamby.
David, I think you're trying to conflate several arguments there but it doesn't work & sounds a bit woolly. Surely the main issue for CH, as for all other establishments that care for children, is that standards are - rightly - much higher now? You can blame Health & Safety, Unicef's Rights of the Child, Human Rights Acts, whatever, but we can't - and shouldn't - try to persuade people that such standards don't matter or are retrogressive. They DO MATTER. Those of us who had a s*** childhood may be proud that against the odds we survived, but there were plenty shipped off to the Commonwealth quite recently - in our time, certainly - to become slaves or worse and they had no say, no comeback and no life. Thanks to the Great Enlightenment CH is doing what it must - and more - and, it appears, doing it well.

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