Bursary

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AnonymousByRequest
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Bursary

Post by AnonymousByRequest » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:14 pm

[By request from the original author, the username has been changed and references to it removed within this topic. Whilst there was a request for complete removal of the topic, feedback from other members was received expressing that there are interesting and relevent posts within the topic which could be of use to others when considering their approach to seeking entry to CH. So, rather than remove the topic completely, it has been made anonymous. Any questions over this, please do drop me a message. Julian (username JTaylor, moderator)]
Can anybody give me a very rough idea of the bursary provision and eligibility for means tested help? For example earning X amount per annum would qualify you for X% off fees... Something along these lines? My child is keen to apply for sixth form entry in september 2012 and seeing as the Ready reckoner is down at the moment and I have not yet received a reply from CH admissions, any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

lonelymom
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Re: Bursary

Post by lonelymom » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:10 pm

It's a very complicated means testing process, taking into account mortgage/rent payments, council tax and water rates payments, property equity etc, and I think it's all in the process of changing, which could be why the ready reckoner isn't available at the moment. There should be someone available to speak to in the school office though, or maybe from Monday, when all the kids are back?
lonelymom :rolleyes:

AnonymousByRequest
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Re: Bursary

Post by AnonymousByRequest » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:50 pm

Thanks lonelymom :) Do you have any ideas if there is a huge difference whether you have a larger annual income but also large outgoings per year... Will the bursary be smaller even if you are left with almost no money after paying for our mortgage etc but not an extremely low income? (Primary teachers salary?).
Sorry if that's not worded very well!
Thanks,
[User name made anonymous by request from original poster]

anniexf
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Re: Bursary

Post by anniexf » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:11 pm

Don't quote me, but ISTR that having a massive mortgage & living on bread & scrape already won't mean a bigger bursary, because only a certain percentage of your income (it was about 12.5% last I heard) is allowable against mortgage expenditure. Unrealistic but that's CH I'm afraid. Whatever you do, don't assume that CH will assess by "normal" rules; to me they are esoteric, eccentric & unbelievable from start to finish. :(

lonelymom
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Re: Bursary

Post by lonelymom » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:38 pm

Annie is right, only 12.5% of your income is allowable for mortgage payments, so if you have an income of £10,000 pa, only £1,250 of mortgage payments per year would be taken into account in your assessment. And as you're giving the example of a teacher (or any local govt worker etc), any pension payments automatically deducted from your salary are also counted as income. I'm pretty sure changes are afoot at the moment, but I expect the basics will remain the same.
lonelymom :rolleyes:

ailurophile
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Re: Bursary

Post by ailurophile » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:01 pm

Lonelymom wrote:
Annie is right, only 12.5% of your income is allowable for mortgage payments, so if you have an income of £10,000 pa, only £1,250 of mortgage payments per year would be taken into account in your assessment. And as you're giving the example of a teacher (or any local govt worker etc), any pension payments automatically deducted from your salary are also counted as income. I'm pretty sure changes are afoot at the moment, but I expect the basics will remain the same.
To be fair, I believe that even CH have recognised that for a low income family 12.5% of income for housing would be totally unrealistic, so they now allow up to £4000 of mortgage/ rental costs pa before the 12.5% limit kicks in. Thus should mean that in the example Lonelymom gives, the deduction for housing costs could represent up to 40% of a £10000 gross household income. However, if you earn something closer to the average income of £25000 and your mortgage payments are say £6000 pa, only £4000 of this will be allowed. If there are two parents each earning £25000, the maximum allowance for housing costs will be £6250 (£50000 x 12.5%).

The bottom line, [Anon], is that your higher income will count for assessment but your higher outgoings won’t!!

As Lonelymom has said, the means testing process is very complicated. It is some months now since the Ready Reckoner was removed from the CH website because the bursary system is "currently under review". With the deadline for 2012 entrance applications fast approaching, the school should recognise that prospective parents really do need to be given access to clear and up to date financial information. It seems very unfair to expect people to commit themselves to the unknown, and as other threads on this Forum have shown this has the potential to create a lot of heartbreak further down the line.

lonelymom
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Re: Bursary

Post by lonelymom » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:51 am

ailurophile wrote:
To be fair, I believe that even CH have recognised that for a low income family 12.5% of income for housing would be totally unrealistic, so they now allow up to £4000 of mortgage/ rental costs pa before the 12.5% limit kicks in. Thus should mean that in the example Lonelymom gives, the deduction for housing costs could represent up to 40% of a £10000 gross household income. However, if you earn something closer to the average income of £25000 and your mortgage payments are say £6000 pa, only £4000 of this will be allowed. If there are two parents each earning £25000, the maximum allowance for housing costs will be £6250 (£50000 x 12.5%).
I think I must have completely forgotten that! Either that, or I hadn't known it in the first place. It's more likely that I've forgotten it though - my memory is getting worse! :roll:
lonelymom :rolleyes:

YadaYada
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Re: Bursary

Post by YadaYada » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:29 am

I don't think I knew about that change to £4000 for mortgage before the 12.5% rule kicks in.

When did that happen?

AnonymousByRequest
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Re: Bursary

Post by AnonymousByRequest » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:53 am

Thankyou everyone, this has all been very helpful!
Last edited by AnonymousByRequest on Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

ailurophile
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Re: Bursary

Post by ailurophile » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:15 am

YadaYada wrote:

I don't think I knew about that change to £4000 for mortgage before the 12.5% rule kicks in.

When did that happen?
Maybe I'm wrong?!! I think I remember this change being introduced a couple of years ago, but of course there's currently no way of checking.

ailurophile
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Re: Bursary

Post by ailurophile » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:13 am

AnonymousByRequest wrote:

Seing as we could never afford the fees, we have been considering changing everything (child benefits etc) so that my step daughter goes to live with her mother, who would probably qualify for a much larger bursary!
Go [Anon], tell it like it is! You are brave to be so candid here about the strategy you are considering, and although this makes for slightly uncomfortable reading I suspect you wouldn't be the first family to exploit this 'loophole'.

One thing your post does demonstrate is that Christ's Hospital appear to be failing in their published aim "to make an education at the School accessible to children from all backgrounds". For many children from middle-income families with parents working in 'average' public sector jobs, CH is unlikely to be affordable.

anniexf
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Re: Bursary

Post by anniexf » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:45 am

AnonymousByRequest wrote:Thankyou everyone, this has all been very helpful!
Seing as we could never afford the fees, we have been considering changing everything (child benefits etc) so that my step daughter goes to live with her mother, who would probably qualify for a much larger bursary! Do you think this is worth doing? Will CH just see right through this and see it as almost 'cheating her way in?' Is it too close to the application date.... Will the paperwork have to show the past years finance? (sorry for the large amount of questions! I just cant seem to find any answers anywhere else!)
Is this fair on your stepdaughter? Is this fair on CH? Whatever my personal opinion of the means-testing system CH uses, it does actually apply to everyone equally. I'm sorry you feel you have no alternative but to deceive; it's not what CH is about, and I for one don't want to see you advertising such a shabby plan here. I'm afraid it offends me.

Antinous1
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Re: Bursary

Post by Antinous1 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:43 pm

anniexf wrote:
AnonymousByRequest wrote:Thankyou everyone, this has all been very helpful!
Seing as we could never afford the fees, we have been considering changing everything (child benefits etc) so that my step daughter goes to live with her mother, who would probably qualify for a much larger bursary! Do you think this is worth doing? Will CH just see right through this and see it as almost 'cheating her way in?' Is it too close to the application date.... Will the paperwork have to show the past years finance? (sorry for the large amount of questions! I just cant seem to find any answers anywhere else!)
Is this fair on your stepdaughter? Is this fair on CH? Whatever my personal opinion of the means-testing system CH uses, it does actually apply to everyone equally. I'm sorry you feel you have no alternative but to deceive; it's not what CH is about, and I for one don't want to see you advertising such a shabby plan here. I'm afraid it offends me.
Offended or not, anniexf, I'm afraid that the honest truth is that this kind of dodge is in regular use at CH. Part of the trouble is surely the problem that ailurophile keeps highlighting: that for middle income families CH can become unaffordable unless they resort to such methods. These are the very families that on the face of it may well have what looks like a healthy income but who, because of commitments like high mortgages and or large (and these are increasingly not always voluntary) pension contributions, are cash poor. It is all so much simpler either side of the middle income band where you are either rich and can easily afford the fees (so why bother 'cheating'), or you have a modest income and modest outgoings and are quite simply poor (however you juggle the figures) and could never even think of a school like CH without the amazing help they offer.

To be fair a solution like [Anon]'s is not so unusual in some circumstances - I certainly know at least one family where a child moved from one parent to another purely so that they would be in catchment for a decent school, and why not, so long as the child really is then living with that parent? It's the financial aspect that makes buterlil's suggestion unpleasant.

Antinous

anniexf
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Re: Bursary

Post by anniexf » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:18 pm

Antinous1 wrote:Offended or not, anniexf, I'm afraid that the honest truth is that this kind of dodge is in regular use at CH.

Well it's cheating and it stinks!!!

It's the financial aspect that makes [Anon] suggestion unpleasant.

QUITE!!!

Antinous

YadaYada
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Re: Bursary

Post by YadaYada » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:09 pm

I agree with anniexf.

I know that parents move to get their children into catchment areas for better schools. May be for some parents the quality of local schooling is a factor in deciding where children live if parents are separated.

This seems to be different. The motivation is to get a higher bursary and stems from that.

So, there are already families at CH that do this? Even if there are, it doesn't make it right.

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