Bursary

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anniexf
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Re: Bursary

Post by anniexf » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:26 pm

YadaYada wrote:I agree with anniexf.

I know that parents move to get their children into catchment areas for better schools. May be for some parents the quality of local schooling is a factor in deciding where children live if parents are separated.

This seems to be different. The motivation is to get a higher bursary and stems from that.

So, there are already families at CH that do this? Even if there are, it doesn't make it right.
Hear, hear, YadaYada. Setting out to deceive a charitable institution - one that is already, as we know, feeling the pinch - is a nauseating idea. If successful, it reduces the help available to other children, and thumbs its nose at all the honest, self-sacrificing parents who give the full, accurate facts. I just hope that someone tips off the Foundation, so that all applications for 2012 on behalf of girls are scrutinised very closely.

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J.R.
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Re: Bursary

Post by J.R. » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:44 pm

I have been following this thread closely of late.

Can I just, PLEASE ask posters to think very carefully before going into print.

I know a lot of us have 'axes' to grind over the way CH is being run these days, especially 'older' OB's, like myself. Take it from me that the 'School' does monitor this site which as you know is an UNOFFICIAL site of CH.

To be honest, I could start relating my recent 'gripes' over certain issues involving the administration, but it would be counter-productive, and possibly alienate relations between the School and OB's.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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jtaylor
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Re: Bursary

Post by jtaylor » Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:43 pm

I agree with JR, would urge caution, and ask all to ensure we abide by the Terms of Use - http://chforum.info/php/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=71

Personally, I would like to emphasise that a CH education is a privilege, funded for many by the generosity of governors, donors, and benefactors (old and new.)
Whilst the rules and processes may not be to everyone's taste, it's easy enough to vote with your feet and not apply - and trying to fraudulently manipulate the rules would seem thoroughly unfair on those in genuine need.
CH was set up to take kids literally off the streets. In order to survive, it's had to compromise to greater or lesser extent over the years - all is ask is that people remember this, and approach the application in good faith and with honesty.

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anniexf
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Re: Bursary

Post by anniexf » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:32 pm

Apologies, JR and Julian, for expressing myself rather more vehemently than perhaps was called for but, as you probably noticed, I "lost it". My parents struggled to find the fees every term, and went without a lot to keep me at CH. We had little to start with! And I know that many current parents are having a very hard time indeed. So when I read that post ... well, you know the rest. Sorry. I still hope that applications for 2012 entry to Deps (girls) will be scrutinised very closely ...

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Re: Bursary

Post by ReallyMissingHer » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:04 am

My understanding is that the £4000 mortgage allowance was just a flat rate that if your mortgage payments were £4000 per annum or less they took them into account regardless of your income. Also the 12.5% is of gross income. Part of the issue is that housing prices have increased since the late 60's at 3 x the rest of inflation so it is now "normal" to overstretch yourself to get a mortgage, now we're on a 30 year term our payments are about 15% of gross income - I'll be repaying until I'm 70 but that is just the way it is I guess :roll:

If the aim of CH is to creat social mobility then why do middle incomers feel their dc need social mobility - presumably it's aim is to create social mobility from literally the "bottom" of society not from the "middle" of society - I am part of the public sector middle society, I only considered CH due to our local in special measures school, her desire to go and both mine and my ex's mental health issues, oh and we're overcrowded (but at least it keeps the heating bills down :lol: )

Urgh the whole situation etc is complex. Our expectations for quality of life and housing and education have soared over the past few decades. Certainly most of daughters friends seem to have larger, better, nicer (far more valuable) houses than us and go on holidays etc etc. Many people have choices but don't seem to think they are choices - the choice to move further out from London, have a longer commute but free up equity as an example. Increas their mortgage term to lower monthly payments etc. We live in one of the grottiest/cheapest areas just outside the M25 in the cheapest 3 bed terrace going on the undesirable council estate and if/when I'm made redundant I will have to commute into London adding 3 hours onto the working day - pretty grim.

Back to moving your step daughter out, you do currently get a deduction of £500 for each child in the household that doesn't attend CH but then you will be paying maintenance for her to her Mum presumably?

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Re: Bursary

Post by DavidRawlins » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:08 am

Another point to consider is that a lot of governors, and others who have given to the school, both long ago and now, have made a sacrifice, sometimes considerable, to help maintain the school's tradition of helping those in need.
The foundation urgently needs a lot more money so that the endowment can be built up so that the school can continue its historic mission.
Col A 1946-1953

anniexf
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Re: Bursary

Post by anniexf » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:30 am

It seems to me that it's the quality of the education, rather than the social mobility aspect, that's attracting the canny middle classes. In that sense, CH is becoming a victim of its own success. Where else would you regularly get such high standards at GCSE, A- and AS-level without having to pay crippling fees? You can see the attraction for those who know how to manipulate systems to their own advantage, without so much as a pang of conscience. We have seen it here: AnonymousByRequest posted "Will CH.....see it as almost cheating her way in?" . NOT, you will observe, that AnonymousByRequest admitted to seeing it that way - the fact that he/she was so gobsmackingly up-front about this suggests it's the norm for such people.
CH is going to have to be very aware of such dodges; it won't be just flat-screen tvs they'll need to look for on their unannounced home visits!

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Re: Bursary

Post by AnonymousByRequest » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:40 am

I am truly sorry for offending you all, I have re-read my post and I now see it as truly thoughtless and didn't mean for my suggestion to sound anything like that! It is of course a very serious consideration that our family only very briefly made! Just to let you all know, we are NOT going to carry this cheating 'plan' through! I just wanted to find peoples opinions, and I am grateful for all your comments; it has made me see that this is not the way forward!! We were just trying to explore every possibility of letting my step daughter have a better education; one that we never would have dreamed of being able to afford... And judging by the way things are looking re CH, we will still be unable to afford it whatever the circumstances.
I know an apology via a few typed letters doesn't sound like much, so I won't try to apologise anymore, but I admit that I was wrong to post the 'suggestion' in this thread and from an outsider point of view, i think i would also find this offensive and immoral.
AnonymousByRequest

ReallyMissingHer
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Re: Bursary

Post by ReallyMissingHer » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:55 am

AnonymousByRequest, thanks for the apology, the whole fees and financing issue is very contentious, it certainly isn't cheap as you net assessed income is very scary if you have a "normal" mortgage level - considerably more than the 12.5% amount!

In my opinion I think in times past there have been people very successfully fiddling the system before some of the recent changes were made. Making huge optional pension contributions, 2nd child + got automatic 50% discount (so very cheap if you had 3 dc close in age who you need to board!), maintenance recieved for children not at CH were not included as household income, those owning their own businesses, those with huge amounts of equity in valuable housing chosing not to release equity to pay for their childs education etc etc.

I think we are all human, we all want the best for our dc and it is very hard to choose to live like a pauper to send a child to any school. I find it quite ironic that on the one hand we received Child Tax Credit as our income was so low to provide for our dc and yet CH took all of it and more besides... :axe:

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Re: Bursary

Post by AnonymousByRequest » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:13 am

Thanks for understanding, ReallyMissingHer. I just want to say once more how awful this has made me feel, upsetting people like this :( I had no idea how my one silly comment would spiral out of control like this! I guess life is just like this sometimes, and I'd do anything to rewind that comment... I find it extremely unfair when people try and cheat the system, so I can't justify thinking about what i said at all really! Just got to accept you don't get something without huge sacrifices these days..

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Re: Bursary

Post by YadaYada » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:30 am

Thanks for the apology AnonymousByRequest.

I didn't really know anything about CH until a family member told me about it and suggested it might be somewhere to consider for my ds. My understanding was always that places were offered on the basis of need. Sometimes (often) this need is financial but also there are many other categories of 'need' by which a child would qualify. I went into it on this basis and trusted that the school would not expect me to pay more than I could actually afford if they considered my ds was in 'need' and would benefit fully from what was offered. So far, so good.

I do think that with the changing times, and with CH entering the competitive fee-paying environment, there are going to be different types of families applying, who probably wouldn't have done so in the past. Obviously bills need to be paid by the school and I just hope there remains a balance and that the 'need' element of the application doesn't get lost.

anniexf
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Re: Bursary

Post by anniexf » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:49 am

AnonymouByRequest, I'm so relieved to read your apology & to learn that your suggestion wasn't a serious one. I'm sure that if you'd really thought things through you wouldn't have posted it in the first place, but then, some of us can get carried away ( as you will have noticed in my case too...!).
So, all is forgiven & I hope you will feel able to understand my somewhat harsh reaction.

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Re: Bursary

Post by ailurophile » Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:03 pm

Thanks to AnonymouByRequest for her heartfelt messages of apology. I am sure that she had no intention of causing such deep offence, and I was disturbed to see her subjected to such opprobrium. Speaking as a parent who was forced to withdraw my child from CH before the sixth form, I have some understanding of AnonymouByRequest's position. We certainly considered every option we could think of to make the assessed fees affordable, but the bottom line was that we had substantially more money going out than coming in every month and this was unsustainable; we had already extended our mortgage term and were living very frugally, so really the only way we could balance the books was to economise on the fees and sacrifice our son’s CH education.

As I think I said on this Forum at the time, it was our son himself who came up with the suggestion “I’m not trying to be funny here, but have you considered divorce?” I was shocked, not so much by his question but by the realisation that where everything else had failed this drastic action probably would have enabled us to keep him at CH. We didn’t seriously think about doing it (although there are moments… :lol: ); but I can absolutely see why AnonymouByRequestand her family might have considered 'cheating'. Their motivation would not be simply to get a bigger bursary, it would be to give her child the chance of access to an educational opportunity which is otherwise closed to her. And don’t overlook the stepdaughter’s role in this; if this young lady does choose to move to live with her mother, surely she has every right to do so without CH (or us!) judging her reasons for doing so.

At the risk of playing devil's advocate, here's something to think about: earlier this summer I took DS to a University open day at Cambridge, where I attended a talk specifically aimed at parents. The speaker told parents not to let up front costs of University worry us – our children will be able to borrow the full amount needed for both living costs and the increased tuition fees, which will be repayable in the form of a ‘graduate tax’ only as and when they can afford it. But at the same time she assured us that for students from low income households, bursaries of up to £6000 pa would be available. To me these two messages appear bafflingly contradictory – either parents are responsible for their child’s University costs, or they’re not. But one thing I do know; if there are any prospective Cambridge undergraduates out there with a choice of parental homes available to them, they won’t require three A* grade A levels to work out that they could benefit considerably by affiliating themselves to the poorer of the two!

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J.R.
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Re: Bursary

Post by J.R. » Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:08 pm

I have been requested by the original poster to remove this thread.

HOWEVER.......
I do feel that within the content, there are some very valid points

Therefore, I have just LOCKED the thread for the time being.

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jtaylor
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Re: Bursary

Post by jtaylor » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:16 pm

I would suggest that if the original poster would like this removed, we're ok with doing so.
If any other contributors to the thread disagree strongly, please PM J.R. and me by 6pm today - after which we'll remove the topic.

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