New Bursaries policy

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dinahcat
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by dinahcat » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:46 pm

I must be being a bit thick but I thought he school was originally founded for pupils who needed 'high support' . I am pretty sure that's what Edward himself thought he was doing...

kingedwardrd
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by kingedwardrd » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:54 pm

Possibly - but then the school had open dorms, horse hair mattreses ... Those days are long gone. The idea that we must remain true to a mission written before the reign of Elizabeth the First does strike me as odd.

Besides, at the moment a child whose parents are a nurse and part time teacher would not be able to send their bright child to CH. That does seem unfair. They are not rich by any stretch of the imagination. In the past it paid to be very poor or very rich if you wanted to send your child to CH. This change will enable the school to represent more fairly the demographic mix of the country. It is no longer feasible (due to increased costs and declining income from the endowment) to carry on as if nothing had changed. The school is going through a major change, but no bigger than when girls came to Horsham. I imagine many old Blues then thought that was the thin end of the wedge but today it is normal and no one minds.

dinahcat
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by dinahcat » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:07 pm

I get the economics of the school but it was not founded for middle income parents what ever way you spin it.

ailurophile
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by ailurophile » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:09 pm

My turn to be a bit thick, but... How exactly does the new policy make it easier for middle income parents to send their children to CH?

dinahcat
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by dinahcat » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:26 pm

It doesn't appear to if you can understand it all but according to a member of staff on Open Day last Saturday it is easier to 'pass ' the entrance exams if you are wealthy; there is a higher pass mark if you are poor which would seem to bear out what kingedwardrd says "As a result there will be far greater competition for places where parents need high support,". that implies that the poorer you are the more intelligent you have to be and conversely...

ailurophile
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by ailurophile » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:49 pm

Oh I see. I had misunderstood; when Kingedwardrd said "There have been some major changes - the primary aim being to make it easier for parents on 'middle income' to send their children to CH.", I thought that he meant that the changes were designed to benefit the parents. Silly me!

I can't help feeling that there might be a flaw in this master plan; while the new policy might make it easier in theory for middle income families to access the school (or should I say, for the school to access the income of these families!), in practice the fees are likely to remain a barrier. Kingedwardrd offers up a 'nurse and part-time teacher' as an example, acknowledging that "They are not rich by any stretch of the imagination". Although it is all but impossible to estimate from the information now available on the website, I'd guess that this exemplar family might qualify for a bursary of perhaps 50-60% of the fees. This is not ungenerous, but it would still leave them to find an initial contribution of £10000 to £12000 pa - and more each year. At a time of escalating living costs and economic uncertainty (jobs in the public sector are particularly insecure!), I doubt whether such a family could realistically consider committing themselves to this level of expenditure for seven years ahead.

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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by sejintenej » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:16 pm

kingedwardrd wrote:Possibly - but then the school had open dorms, horse hair mattreses ... Those days are long gone. The idea that we must remain true to a mission written before the reign of Elizabeth the First does strike me as odd.
Sorry but you have lost me on that one. Has the UK lost an entire poor class whose members have trouble buying food and heating? If so the statistics quoted yesterday on the numbers of people who didn't have a meal the day before are nonsense. The school was created for the poor - they might not be as badly off as the gin-swilling denizens the The Fleet but there is still a huge number who are relatively badly off.
There was nothing much wrong with horsehair mattresses (the shortage of boards was sometimes a problem) and what problem do you have with open dorms?
kingedwardrd wrote:Besides, at the moment a child whose parents are a nurse and part time teacher would not be able to send their bright child to CH. That does seem unfair. They are not rich by any stretch of the imagination. In the past it paid to be very poor or very rich if you wanted to send your child to CH. This change will enable the school to represent more fairly the demographic mix of the country. It is no longer feasible (due to increased costs and declining income from the endowment) to carry on as if nothing had changed. .
Who said in 1552 that the school should represent the demographic mix? I accept that falling income means that the school has to accept pupils whose parents can afford to subsidise*** poorer children but that is a far cry to deliberately echoing a demographic mix. (***By filling a place at full cost the school does not have to give a bursary to a more needful child)

IMHO your reference to a nurse and a part-time teacher absolutely destroys any argument for their offspring attending CH. One of the big signs looked for is NEED. Need arises from broken, drunken,criminal or violent homes, parental failure to properly guide the offspring and failure to enforce a learning ethic (you can add a few more ideas to those). With only a few exceptions your nurse and part time teacher are so well educated that such a definition of "need" would not apply.
Let me give you the example of a CH boy I knew well: adopted by a single woman (yes, it happened then) who was innumerate and barely literate, she worked from 6.30am until very late at night so there was no time for the child, barely any money so the child had to be clothed in her cast-offs, and the mother actually died whilst the child was at CH - Social Services didn't even check to see if the child had anywhere to live after that.
Would you, kingedwardrd, give a CH place to that kid or to the child of a well paid nurse and part time teacher?
kingedwardrd wrote:The school is going through a major change, but no bigger than when girls came to Horsham. I imagine many old Blues then thought that was the thin end of the wedge but today it is normal and no one minds.
The school HAD 850 boys and I understand something over 300 girls - a total of 1150 or more. With the amalgamation:
- no prep school removing the need for a second organisation to house and educate much younger pupils
- a drop in pupil numbers of 300 or more.

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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by DavidRawlins » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:37 am

No one knows if it will be possible to get enough endowment to return to the original aims of the foundation; of caring for the poor and needy. It worries me that the money may be raised but that the school may have changed so much that these aims may have been forgotten.
It behoves all Old Blues to dip deeply into their pockets, to remember the leaving charge , and to try to get the endowment to be raised to such a level so that those who are in the position that we were we were when CH admitted us, helped us, clothed us, and fed us,can be helped in a similar manner.
We should also try to influence our friends and aquaintances and any institutions and companies that we have contact with to contribute as well.
This needs to be done as soon as possible before the ethos of CH disappears.
Col A 1946-1953

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J.R.
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by J.R. » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:54 am

What really annoys me, is that some of us more senior OB's get called dinosaurs - people who won't accept change, etc., etc !!!

This is NOT the case as far as I'm concerned. Yes - Certain changes have to be made to keep up with the world, but NOT at the expense of what the School has stood for since it's inception.

I mean - Whatever next ? Will we have something along the lines of the 'Bullingdon Club' for Grecians ??

HEAVEN FORBID !
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by pinkhebe » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:21 pm

J.R. wrote: Yes - Certain changes have to be made to keep up with the world, but NOT at the expense of what the School has stood for since it's inception.
Hear hear

ailurophile
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by ailurophile » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:23 pm

Sejintenej wrote:
IMHO your reference to a nurse and a part-time teacher absolutely destroys any argument for their offspring attending CH. One of the big signs looked for is NEED. Need arises from broken, drunken,criminal or violent homes, parental failure to properly guide the offspring and failure to enforce a learning ethic (you can add a few more ideas to those). With only a few exceptions your nurse and part time teacher are so well educated that such a definition of "need" would not apply.
While this is a very powerful definition of need, I wonder just how many children from such backgrounds have been admitted to CH in recent years? The application procedure is complex and demanding, and the type of drunken, criminal or violent parents who neglect their children's moral and educational welfare will, for those very reasons, be unlikely to apply!

I don't know what the profile of a 'typical' CH parent would be, but if the mums and dads of my sons' peers are anything to go by they are almost universally well educated and caring, and many of them work in professional roles (a good few nurses and teachers among them!).

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J.R.
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by J.R. » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:47 pm

One thing I HAVE learnt over the last couple of years is, that when a Head-Teacher of a state school makes representation to CH on a needs basis where the pupil is talented but suffering for financial, social and lack of state school facilities, CH tends to look the other way.

Oh well - Thats todays way of life, I suppose.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by lippizaner » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:00 pm

If I could afford to pây for my son's education myself, I would NOT choose CH as I would feel that I was taking a place away from a needy child. WHO are these people who are sending their children there when they can afford to send them elsewhere? It is these people who should think twice about where they send their child and not take away a place a needy child requires.

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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by Katharine » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:05 pm

J.R. wrote:What really annoys me, is that some of us more senior OB's get called dinosaurs - people who won't accept change, etc., etc !!!

This is NOT the case as far as I'm concerned. Yes - Certain changes have to be made to keep up with the world, but NOT at the expense of what the School has stood for since it's inception.

I mean - Whatever next ? Will we have something along the lines of the 'Bullingdon Club' for Grecians ??

HEAVEN FORBID !
I don't agree with everything JR posts, but in this case I am with him all the way! I have been horrified by some of the things I have read recently about fees, and would really like to help to increase the endowment - but lack either the knowledge of who to tap or the ready money to give it myself!
Katharine Dobson (Hills) 6.14, 1959 - 1965
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Re: New Bursaries policy

Post by TrueBlue » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:53 pm

I'm with JR and sejintenej here, solidly behind making provision for the most needy, at a number that the foundation can afford from its funds. Chasing income by selection of more well off parents does not make economic or educational sense, nor do Old Blues wish to dig deep into their pockets to provide a subsidised education to middle class families. The school was founded for the poor and needy, and this country has plenty of poor and needy - we just need to find them and pursuade them that a life changing education is of benefit.

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