The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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yamaha
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by yamaha »

The newspaper reports seemed to like repeating his association with Eton and that he was a former pupil sponsored by Barnes Wallis' trust.
bakunin
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by bakunin »

.)
michael scuffil wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:46 am Although the spat between bakunin and sejintenej is OT, I would just say this: I was a contemporary (more or less) of sejintenej, and think he may exaggerate somewhat about home conditions (though I had running hot water and central heating at CH, for example, but not at home). However, life in the 1950s was materially and psychologically immeasurably harder. In my time, at least a quarter of the boys were war orphans. Half the staff and many fathers had seen active service (e.g. seen their comrades get their heads blown off). There were abusers then too, of course. They mostly got their kicks from corporal punishment, but that was probably true of every boys' school in the country, it was perfectly legal, and was seen by few for what it was.
Thank you Michael for reminding us younger Old Blues that conditions in the 50s were substantially different from later, and thanks also to Rockfreak for your (plural) considered and objective responses. I for some reason had it in my head that sejintenej was at CH in the 70s, when general living conditions were probably not all that different than in the 90s. This explains his mentality and response better. It would also mean that the "gratitude gambit", by which I mean enabling abuse by 'guilting' victims into thinking they should simply be grateful to be at CH and not complain, would be even more effective back then.

(I have also now noticed through browsing the forums a little more that the topic of boarding school and psychology has been discussed very extensively on this site and will be following up on some of the recommendations such as "The Making of Them". I think these trials will cause many other OBs from the 90s to re-examine their time there for the first time since they left, as I, scrub, and various others have been doing. The now substantial distance in time and greater self-awareness as well as having children of our own makes many things much clearer. This may all be old hat to the regular forum posters.)

To tie this back to the topic at hand, by the 1990s (but really, a long time before that) it should have been abundantly clear to any professional educator that certain widespread practices in boarding schools are psychologically harmful, especially to younger children. Having written down my thoughts on my time at CH, thoughts that I hadn't really assembled coherently or looked at in writing until now, it's clear that the most traumatic time for myself and probably many others was definitely the 2nd and 3rd form, considering the hair-pulling and weird dissociative states that are classic psychological symptoms of severe stress, anxiety or depression.

I have to reiterate that the excessive respect for tradition at CH is very closely related to why the practices that enabled my own bad time and others' far worse experiences still hadn't been changed or seriously examined by the 1990s, and why the school's reputation and abusers' careers were prioritised over the safety and mental health of pupils.
rockfreak
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by rockfreak »

I'm pleased that Nick Duffell and Dr Joy Scheverien's work with boarding school survivors is being well aired on this site. Now not everyone has a bad experience at these places but of those who did Nick makes the points that they are psychologically made to feel guilty along the lines of: "Well you had a good education, an advantage that others didn't, so why are you complaining?" As Nick says, this is a serpent with many coils. It causes you to repress your emotional problems and misgivings even further, and as a psychotherapist would say, what you cannot purge at the time you will carry with you to give you subconscious problems in later life. It's taken me the best part of a lifetime to work out my ambivalent feelings about my education and Nick's books have been a massive help.
Janey Jam-Jar
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by Janey Jam-Jar »

rockfreak wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:09 pm I'm pleased that Nick Duffell and Dr Joy Scheverien's work with boarding school survivors is being well aired on this site. Now not everyone has a bad experience at these places but of those who did Nick makes the points that they are psychologically made to feel guilty along the lines of: "Well you had a good education, an advantage that others didn't, so why are you complaining?" As Nick says, this is a serpent with many coils. It causes you to repress your emotional problems and misgivings even further, and as a psychotherapist would say, what you cannot purge at the time you will carry with you to give you subconscious problems in later life. It's taken me the best part of a lifetime to work out my ambivalent feelings about my education and Nick's books have been a massive help.
I agree with all of this, rockfreak. Likewise I've found his work immensely insightful personally and professionally. Maybe the school should consider giving leavers a copy of one of his books along with the bible ...
LHA
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by LHA »

Here's a quote from the Town Clerk of Pickering Town Council, one James Andrew Husband, welcoming the work done by offenders supervised by the Probation Service to clean up and undertake street works in Pickering.

"Andrew Husband, Pickering Town Clerk, said the Community Payback team was a significant and valuable resource for the council. He added: “The team from HLNY CRC offer a crucial helping hand to get the job done quickly, efficiently and at no cost to tax payers"

I suspect the next time Mr Husband has the opportunity to rub shoulders with convicted offenders, it might be an opportunity which lasts for some while, and won't much in the way of outdoor activities.

http://www.hlnycrc.co.uk/north-yorkshir ... ck-scheme/
richardb
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by richardb »

This one intrigues me:

https://www.kirkbymoorside.info/tag/rotary/

Scroll down to 12th February where a place sailing is offered to a 14-17 year old.
blueeyedboy
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by blueeyedboy »

There are I suspect a number of us from the 70s who remember Burr, Webb and Husband well and who are quietly watching from the shadows. To me, there are three strands that bring it all together:
1 We are conflicted; CH was bl**dy unpleasant, particularly if you were young, small, blond, blue eyed and clever, but without it our lives would not be as outwardly successful as others would perceive them to be
2 No one understood in the 70s that CH with its cohort of potentially fragile children was exactly the sort of school that would start to be actively targeted by predatory teachers, and as a result it was powerless to defend itself
3 The 'warning off' of teachers for whom the balances of evidence eventually became damning simply shifted the problem on to another school, and other children, as in the case of Burr.

It is 3 that is the stain on the Foundation, because that doesn't just hurt us; the school played pass the parcel with other people's lives, and that is utterly, utterly unacceptable.
richardb
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by richardb »

What is noticeable is that a lot of people are no longer in the shadows but are speaking out.

I didn't know Burr but he kept turning up like a bad smell after he was moved on, not least with his narrow boat holidays on the Norfolk Broads with Webb unchaperoned of course.

Webb was obviously a paedophile.

I will keep my counsel about Husband until the verdicts are in but I will not shed a tear if he is imprisoned.

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jakew
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by jakew »

richardb wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:54 pm I didn't know Burr but he kept turning up like a bad smell after he was moved on, not least with his narrow boat holidays on the Norfolk Broads with Webb unchaperoned of course.
I think Webb was from before my time, but I do remember Burr. This is the incredible part, the masters in charge of these trips must have known exactly why Burr had "left suddenly" some years earlier, but didn't see fit to stop inviting him along for some jolly japes with the boys!
richardb
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by richardb »

The trial has moved quickly on to witness 26 morning which is likely to mean that Dobbie is calling character witnesses. Interestingly, Husband does not appear to have called any such witnesses, although he may have had some written references.
yamaha
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by yamaha »

Richard, where do you get this information? Do you have a link?
richardb
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by richardb »

yamaha wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:22 pm Richard, where do you get this information? Do you have a link?
There are two sources:


www.causelist.org

http://xhibit.justice.gov.uk/lewes.htm


The Xhibit system links into the Ministry of Justice system that runs the court system.

There is an element of "inside knowledge" in terms of readng into what it means. Witness 21 was Husband while witness 22 was Dobbie. The absence of witnesses after Husband tells me he did not call any witness into the witness box to give evidence about his character. Conversely, Dobbie appears to have called a number of short witnesses who may well be character witness or who deal with discrete points of the evidence.
yamaha
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by yamaha »

Many thanks.
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J.R.
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by J.R. »

I see there has been a one hour adjournment this morning. Legal submission ??

Off shopping so will have to catch up later this evening
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.
richardb
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Re: The trial of James Andrew Husband and Gary Dobbie

Post by richardb »

I anticipate that the trial has moved to the closing stages. All parties have the chance to make closing speeches to the jury (prosecution go first), then the judge sums the case up to jury. The summing up is split into two parts: (i) the judge will tell the jury what the law is; and (ii) the judge will summarise the evidence.

It is customary for the judge to discuss the law with the jury in these sorts of cases before speeches, so that everyone gets it right. The latest message on the system is described as "legal submissions" which I think is the discussion between the judge and lawyers about the law.
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