Did anyone know?

This section was setup in August 2018 in order to move the existing related discussions from other sections into this new section to group them together, and separate from the other CH-related topics.

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jtaylor
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by jtaylor »

Corporal punishment was alive and well when I joined in 1985, having been “cracked” on my bottom with a trainer (Dunlop Green Flash I think) by Sillett in his study in around 1986.
Extremely painful, and received for swearing, after he heard me say “It’s not f’ing funny!” to another pupil, who was laughing at someone else who’d just been cracked themselves. Felt extremely unjust at the time.

So if it was “ended before the merger”, then nobody told my housemaster....I must have been 11 or 12 at the time, having joined aged 10 in 1985.
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Re: Did anyone know?

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As far as I remember, corporal punishment had been officially stopped at CH around the merger. The only reason I remember this was because my parents specifically asked one of the senior people (possibly Poulton) they met when I went for the entrance exam or just before I started. I can't remember whether my parents were disappointed or relieved to hear that :lol:

I imagine that some staff may have believed that since a slipper wasn't a cane it was still OK, but officially it was not the done thing. That said, any complaints would have gone through Sillett then (maybe) Poulton, so ...
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by jtaylor »

Quote from The Guardian (I know, sorry, don't like quoting that!):
The ban on corporal punishment came into force in 1986 in British state schools (private schools took a while longer: until 1998 in England and Wales, 2000 in Scotland and 2003 in Northern Ireland).
Source
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CodFlabAndMuck
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by CodFlabAndMuck »

I remember Jeffers once saying you wont find me hitting anyone

One of the more modern thinking teachers
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by scrub »

Thanks Julian, didn't know that. 2003 for NI though!

So I guess 'officially stopped' actually meant 'being slowly phased out'. I'll save that little nugget for the next time my folks feel like asking me about my time at CH! I can't remember actually seeing anyone get slippered by a housemaster.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Scazza »

marty wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:03 pm I started in 89 & witnessed a boy on my year being slippered. In fact, the teacher in question asked for a sample of slippers from the rest of us and then selected one with a hard sole. Not saying this was a regular occurrence but corporal punishment did not end with Baker.
Post merger and, like Sillett, Maddren in Peele B used to regularly 'crack' kids with a size 12 'el cheapo' green flash trainer. If he really hated you, he'd move furniture in his study for a longer run-up. All very Christian.

The year above mine were a tough bunch and were regulars. One lad got three on one occasion for stealing syringes (sans needles) from the infirmary. They left significant bruises and I always thought it was backward and uncivilised, like much of CH culture.

I think they had to seek parents permission first. I was never on the receiving end but would have loved to have heard the potential conversation with my 5ft mum, which i imagine would have revolved round promises to beat Maddren to death with his size 12 trainer if he touched a hair on my head!

I cant believe Tim was unaware of this from the ivory tower of the senior Peele boarding house! I also hope the 'can't rely on my memory in court' isn't a petty dig at the proceedings / convictions. Presumably the survivors remember well events that had such a significant effect on them - if only teachers at the time had been a bit more switched on about what was going on around them.
Last edited by Scazza on Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Jim Rayner »

scrub wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:40 am As far as I remember, corporal punishment had been officially stopped at CH around the merger. The only reason I remember this was because my parents specifically asked one of the senior people (possibly Poulton) they met when I went for the entrance exam or just before I started. I can't remember whether my parents were disappointed or relieved to hear that :lol:
Reminds me of an open day, which must have been before I started but after I knew I was going into LHA, when my grandmother, an embarrassing woman with a loud clear voice and no discernible sense of humour, asked my soon to be housemaster, MH Jones, whether the school still practised 'capital' punishment. This was shortly after she'd pointed at some urinals and observed "I suppose those are the showers."
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by yamaha »

Post by robert totterdell » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:26 pm

One of the questions that I will be asking the governing council of today is, when I address them ...
I wonder how Robert's meeting went?
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by marty »

yamaha wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:45 am
Post by robert totterdell » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:26 pm

One of the questions that I will be asking the governing council of today is, when I address them ...
I wonder how Robert's meeting went?
Was the meeting yesterday? I took "the governing council of today" to mean "the present governing council" rather than that he was meeting with them that day...
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by yamaha »

Sorry - yes - my mistake.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by Scazza »

Robinson wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:26 pm
Also, I remember that Mike Gladding used to HATE it when his students went to Dobbie's house, which was just opposite Peele B when he was housemaster. Maybe he just didn't like the guy.
As a biologist Gladding was contemptuous of all things religious but there may have been other reasons.....

Two or three years before that (1989?) I went to Dobbies 'chaplains' house Sat night and it was a really odd atmosphere with open drinking and smoking among quite young kids. Several of the kids I knew there were gay and I thought it was good for them to get away from homophobic bullying but I felt deeply uncomfortable. It felt like when you're the only one in the room not in on the secret.

Young, gay-curious boys, alcohol, a safe place in a chaplains house away from the boarding houses, a secret club where school rules didn't apply..... what could possibly go wrong? All this a couple of years before Dobbies offending apparently began.... during soirees with alcohol in his private digs.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by J.R. »

In Prep B, only slippering was allowed. No caning. This was administered one evening a week in the dormitory by housemaster, Mr Eagle. I recall all misdeamours were added up over a weekly basis and punishment was set for that one evening, carried out in front of all, presumably as a deterrent.

Caning in house were always carried out in the masters study.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by marty »

Returning to the thread's question and, at the risk of sounding like Donald Rumsfeld, in summary it appears that some people knew something but didn't know about other things: some people knew nothing at all or if they did know something they didn't know that they knew it; but no one knew everything and if they did then they didn't share it with others; and there are some things we know that we know, some things we think we know and some things we know that we will never know.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by graham »

jtaylor wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:08 am Quote from The Guardian (I know, sorry, don't like quoting that!):
The ban on corporal punishment came into force in 1986 in British state schools (private schools took a while longer: until 1998 in England and Wales, 2000 in Scotland and 2003 in Northern Ireland).
Source
I can clearly recall Ken Grimshaw showing a bunch of us squits in Maine B his punishment log, in 1990 or 91. KHG was a stickler for doing things by the book and so it certainly would not surprise me to discover that this was a document of his own invention, and not a requirement that other housemasters followed. Nonetheless, I have two recollections from this. First, I am sure he said that caning was phased out prior to the ban on on the slipper. But more importantly I also remember that the last entry in his log was some years prior to us joining. It seemed like an age before at the time but ~ 1986 seems about right. The main point though is that slippering was certainly considered by some housemasters to be against the rules by the early 90's.
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Re: Did anyone know?

Post by sejintenej »

marty wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:52 am
yamaha wrote: Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:45 am I wonder how Robert's meeting went?
Was the meeting yesterday? I took "the governing council of today" to mean "the present governing council" rather than that he was meeting with them that day...
I have little doubt that the contents of that meeting SHOULD have been sensitive. Robert might feel that at the present time he cannot disclose anything (or even a little) so let us allow him to post what he feels appropriate.
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What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
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