All this is incredibly sad

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charlesr
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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by charlesr » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:11 pm

Foureyes wrote:Graham,
I am not trying to be difficult, but how does anyone know that "over 60 percent of sexual assault cases are never reported?" If they are not reported how does anyone know that they have taken place? Also, 60 percent of how many - 100, 1,000, 10,000? This is a very emotive area - and rightly so - but throwing quasi-statistics around does not help the discussion.
Also, I note that you live in Chicago, so are you talking about US figures or UK figures, or even, England figures?
David :shock:
Figures are reported in the Crime Survey (CSEW) https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... gmarch2017

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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by graham » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:15 am

David, I know you're not trying to be difficult, and I assure you I'm not either. I prefer to think we are having a heated but friendly discussion, rather than an argument here.

These numbers are necessarily extrapolations from (typically) anonymous surveys but US and UK numbers are remarkably similar. To put the percentages into real number terms, 1 in five UK women (4.3 million) have experienced some form of sexual abuse (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ce-figures). In the US, the number is approximately 1 in 6 (https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victim ... l-violence), which I'd guess is within the bounds of sampling error.

Put in those terms, the diminishing numbers of reported crimes, prosecuted crimes and punished crimes are truly staggering. We have to find ways of doing better, challenging though it might be.

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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by Foureyes » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:27 am

Thank you for directing me towards the Crime Survey.
I know that you will think this pedantry (me, as if?) but the survey, although published by 'gov.uk', is actually for England and Wales only and should be quoted as such. To derive 'UK' figures you would have to find and add in the relevant figures for Scotland and Northern Ireland.This may seem irrelevant to someone living outside the British Isles, but some people within them take these matters very seriously. I shall not elaborate any further as that would stir up yet further trouble!!
However, as C.H. is located in Horsham and the vast majority of its pupils come from England, Wales or overseas, the 'England and Wales' survey is the most relevant, although any quote from it should be labelled as such.
David :shock:

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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by Scazza » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:06 pm

Fwiw I thought David was bang on the money. Sex or sexual assault typically happens privately. Only two individuals present and one word against another.
All allegations as nothing is proven.

Just watching Brett Kavanaugh, the US judge. Not tried for anything but public trial about an alleged assault 36yrs ago. Weird. Her evidence sounds more compelling in many ways but highlights many of these issues in a current judicial setting.

I guess the evidence in the CH convictions is far stronger due to corroboration between witnesses who provided similar accounts of abuse.

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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by J.R. » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:07 am

I watched quite a bit of the US Senate hearing as well, yesterday.

I found it hard to get my head round it all.

I have to say, I found her testimony along the lines of her '5 minutes of fame. Cruel, I know and probably wrong. However the Americans do love their theatre though.
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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by michael scuffil » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:56 am

There is a very important difference with Kavanaugh. Even if he is guilty of what he is accused of, he is not guilty of a breach of trust. A high-school party is not a teacher-pupil relationship.

Much as I hate to say so, I fear this lady's appearance is factitious. Even if everything she says is true, it doesn't disqualify him from the post. But her appearance before the Senate, more than her accusations, makes it very hard for him to fulfil it.
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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by J.R. » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:51 pm

Maybe Comrade Putin will sort it all out.
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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by rockfreak » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:38 pm

J.R. wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:07 am
I watched quite a bit of the US Senate hearing as well, yesterday.

I found it hard to get my head round it all.

I have to say, I found her testimony along the lines of her '5 minutes of fame. Cruel, I know and probably wrong. However the Americans do love their theatre though.
I don't know how you can say that Michael, and JR. Any woman who sticks her head above the parapet in America, with its partisan politics, knows she is going to get hit by a load of cr*p on Twitter, etc, or even in the street. I believe she has already had to leave home. It happens here too, witness Gina Miller. What percentage can there be in putting yourself in that position? Another woman has accused Kavanaugh but she has not been called to testify for reasons which I don't understand since this whole thing is a bit legally technical. OK, it's all well in the past but does that make the nineteen women who accused Trump of sexual misbehaviour wrong? Were they all deluded? All craving their five minutes of fame? One fantasist maybe (like the deranged woman who accused Neil and Christina Hamilton of rape) but once the testimony starts to mount up surely we've got to start taking notice.
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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by Avon » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:59 pm

rockfreak wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:38 pm
...like the deranged woman who accused Neil and Christina Hamilton of rape...
Such a shame that fell through. In that case, and others, I value their disgrace and disappearance far more than I value the actual truth.

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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by rockfreak » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:21 pm

Avon wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:59 pm
rockfreak wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:38 pm
...like the deranged woman who accused Neil and Christina Hamilton of rape...
Such a shame that fell through. In that case, and others, I value their disgrace and disappearance far more than I value the actual truth.

They joined the UKIP cause didn't they? Which was about the only place left for them.

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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by J.R. » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:50 pm

Sorry Freaky. No comment to that.

Awaiting Jezzas free red flag as I type, plus a pair of Boris's braces and hopefully a copy of Dianne Abbots recent biography through the letterbox very shortly.

As things stand at the moment (or crumble), I won't be voting at all in the recent future.
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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by J.R. » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:53 pm

Sorry !! I forgot the Lib Dems.

WHO ??

Exactly.
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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by graham » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:19 am

rockfreak wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:38 pm
J.R. wrote:
Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:07 am
I watched quite a bit of the US Senate hearing as well, yesterday.

I found it hard to get my head round it all.

I have to say, I found her testimony along the lines of her '5 minutes of fame. Cruel, I know and probably wrong. However the Americans do love their theatre though.
I don't know how you can say that Michael, and JR. Any woman who sticks her head above the parapet in America, with its partisan politics, knows she is going to get hit by a load of cr*p on Twitter, etc, or even in the street. I believe she has already had to leave home. It happens here too, witness Gina Miller. What percentage can there be in putting yourself in that position? Another woman has accused Kavanaugh but she has not been called to testify for reasons which I don't understand since this whole thing is a bit legally technical. OK, it's all well in the past but does that make the nineteen women who accused Trump of sexual misbehaviour wrong? Were they all deluded? All craving their five minutes of fame? One fantasist maybe (like the deranged woman who accused Neil and Christina Hamilton of rape) but once the testimony starts to mount up surely we've got to start taking notice.

Indeed, the prevailing view here has been that she was very credible. Kavanaugh's testimony was more divisive. But while his guilt or innocence might be irrelevant with regards his qualification, his responses to some senators, particularly Amy Kloubacher, have raised questions about his temperament.

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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by J.R. » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:44 am

Well, the FBI have now got a week to investigate further thanks to Trumpton. I don't honestly think a month would be long enough but I suppose a week is better than nothing.
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Re: All this is incredibly sad

Post by michael scuffil » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:25 am

I don't know how you can say that Michael

Don't get me wrong. I think she's probably telling the truth. But two things worry me: (1) the timing; and (2) the notion that an adolescent escapade (however unpleasant) should harm someone's career.

Mind you, even if he's appointed, he's lost his authority.
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