The Cost of War

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Chris Blewett
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The Cost of War

Post by Chris Blewett » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:38 pm

Heard today the cost of flying a modern fighter plane (£35k an hour or £190k for Norfolk to Libya and back) and missiles are £800k each.
Now if we have the money for this - why are we cutting back on public services???

Ok...I'm naive and should be wiser but it does seem strange to me!
:(
:tomcat: (this seems strangely appropriate!!!)
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Re: The Cost of War

Post by midget » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:48 pm

See the cartoon in The Times
Thou shalt not sit with statisticians nor commit a social science.

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Re: The Cost of War

Post by Chris Blewett » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:34 pm

Well the Prime Minister answered the question in today's PMQs - the cost of the Libya offensive is coming out of the Treasury Reserve.....so thats ok then
:?
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Re: The Cost of War

Post by sejintenej » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:46 pm

Chris Blewett wrote:Well the Prime Minister answered the question in today's PMQs - the cost of the Libya offensive is coming out of the Treasury Reserve.....so thats ok then
:?
Don't forget that the Treasury gets a fair amount of that back; they get 20% VAT on each missile and replacement part for the plane, probably Fuel Tax, the aircrew who are paid danger money or whatever get taxed as do the gound crew working overtime as do the people who make the plane .... it is simply money out of the MOD into the Treasury

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Re: The Cost of War

Post by icomefromalanddownunder » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:24 pm

Words of wisdom from a tea towel:

All will be well with the world when the defence forces run cake stalls to raise money for their toys and governments adequately fund education and health.

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Re: The Cost of War

Post by Mid A 15 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:40 pm

It is remarkable how "belt tightening" goes out of the window and billions can magically be found when it comes to financing the vanity wars of politicians, bailing out the Euro or spurious "green" schemes that generate about enough electricity to power a single (low energy) light bulb!

Meanwhile young mothers cannot be given the cancer drugs to prolong their lives, dementia patients the drugs to delay the ravages of their condition and elderly people are routinely starved to death and left putrifying in their own faeces in our State death camps, sorry that should be NHS hospitals, because humane care has to be "rationed" to save money. Note it is never the "suits" or "state of the art" computer systems that get "rationed" just the care of the people the goddamned bureaucracy exists to serve!

Alternatively and additionally our young people who seek to better themselves through obtaining degrees at university are condemned to massive debt as the students friend, Clegg, reneges on his election promises re tuition fees to match the deceit and treachery of his mate "cast-iron" Dave. Cast -iron because that was how he described his guarantee of a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Sorry to come over all Daily Mail but I'm fed up with my country interfering in the business of other countries. Fair enough if we have suffered a direct act of aggression such as Argentina invading the Falklands that is called protecting our people and our interests. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

And breathe!
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Re: The Cost of War

Post by englishangel » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:54 am

There is/was a poster

Everything I know I learned from Star Trek.

The Prime Directive.

The Prime Directive, also known as Starfleet General Order 1, is one of Starfleet's most important binding principles about noninterference in another culture's internal affairs, natural development and progression. The Prime Directive forbids Starfleet officers from interfering with the social order of any planet. Violation of the Prime Directive is generally considered a court martial offense followed by severe punishment unless sufficient justification can be made for the violation. Even though there have been incidences where Starfleet personnel have decided on strong ethical grounds to ignore the Prime Directive, on the whole it is believed to do a lot more good than harm.

For "planet" read "sovereign country" - unless of course it is one of the largest oil producers in the galaxy...sorry world.
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Re: The Cost of War

Post by NEILL THE NOTORIOUS » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:40 am

I don't think I dare comment ---

But I suggest you read "Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling !

I will quote but two lines -----

"Oh its Tommy this an' Tommy that, an' throw 'im out the door ----
But its "Thin red line of 'eroes "-- when the guns begin to roar !"

No appropriate Smiley !

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Re: The Cost of War

Post by Chris Blewett » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:41 am

Thank you for reminding us that its not the politicians or generals that pay the price - but the men/women at the front line. Baldrick leaps to mind for some reason with his cunning plan
:(
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Re: The Cost of War

Post by AKAP » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:00 am

Mid A 15 wrote:It is remarkable how "belt tightening" goes out of the window and billions can magically be found when it comes to financing the vanity wars of politicians, bailing out the Euro or spurious "green" schemes that generate about enough electricity to power a single (low energy) light bulb!

Meanwhile young mothers cannot be given the cancer drugs to prolong their lives, dementia patients the drugs to delay the ravages of their condition and elderly people are routinely starved to death and left putrifying in their own faeces in our State death camps, sorry that should be NHS hospitals, because humane care has to be "rationed" to save money. Note it is never the "suits" or "state of the art" computer systems that get "rationed" just the care of the people the goddamned bureaucracy exists to serve!

Alternatively and additionally our young people who seek to better themselves through obtaining degrees at university are condemned to massive debt as the students friend, Clegg, reneges on his election promises re tuition fees to match the deceit and treachery of his mate "cast-iron" Dave. Cast -iron because that was how he described his guarantee of a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Sorry to come over all Daily Mail but I'm fed up with my country interfering in the business of other countries. Fair enough if we have suffered a direct act of aggression such as Argentina invading the Falklands that is called protecting our people and our interests. :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

And breathe!

I'm with you on this one, this political issue has a long way to run yet. The Government must be made to sqirm.
Only one point I would dispute is the excellent care my family and friends have received from the NHS including care of the elderly (and i don't read the Daily Rant so I still have a high regard for the NHS).

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Re: The Cost of War

Post by Chris Blewett » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:10 am

NHS care really is a lottery - I have horror stories from 2 large Foundation Trust Hospitals about care of the elderly - but one of the Hospitals was fantastic when it came to my sister-in-law who had a life threatening condition and pitched up at A&E late on a Friday!

I do wonder if we would be fighting in Libya if it didn't produce oil!!! (I suspect we wouldn't!!)
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Re: The Cost of War

Post by Katharine » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:14 pm

Are we going to do anything about Bahrain or the Yemen? They don't have oil - enuff said.
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Re: The Cost of War

Post by Ajarn Philip » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:27 am

Maybe I'm being naive here, but would someone please explain to me what the fact that Libya has oil has to do with anything? Libya was selling oil last year and will undoubtedly be doing so next year. I very much doubt that the UK, France et al will qualify for a special discount.
I know exactly what words I am wanting to say, but somehow or other they is always getting squiffsquiddled around

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Re: The Cost of War

Post by jhopgood » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:31 am

I have always been under the impression that the underlying cause of most wars is to gain economic advantage. Securing supply of a necessary commodity, oil, would fall into that category.
If the desire to protect populations from harm was the criteria, then surely places like Zimbabwe would have received belligerent help a long time ago, but then Zimbabwe is of little economic consequence to the major western powers.
I may be cynical but no-one spends billions of euros helping someone else for purely altruistic purposes. There must be an underlying reason, and the most obvious one is to ensure the oil supply.
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Re: The Cost of War

Post by sejintenej » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:28 am

jhopgood wrote:I have always been under the impression that the underlying cause of most wars is to gain economic advantage. Securing supply of a necessary commodity, oil, would fall into that category.
If the desire to protect populations from harm was the criteria, then surely places like Zimbabwe would have received belligerent help a long time ago, but then Zimbabwe is of little economic consequence to the major western powers.
I may be cynical but no-one spends billions of euros helping someone else for purely altruistic purposes. There must be an underlying reason, and the most obvious one is to ensure the oil supply.
I think that economic advantage is just one of the major reasons.
The other big one which comes to mind is self-preservation. Argentina started the Beagle Channel dispute to stop its populace thinking about economic problems at home. They later started the Malvinas dispute for exactly the same reason. I'm pretty sure that the Great South American War was started purely for pride reasons - they wiped out 2/3rds of the male population of Paraguay so they lost workforce and then lost their existing access to the Pacific Ocean. The areas attacked did not hold much economic advantage. Given (at that time) the lack of economic factors in the Falklands I suspect Lady T went to war to bolster her standing in the UK.
We had several wars around / against Israel which were either for the personal purposes of the protagonists or to reduce Muslim pressure to act. I don't see that economic factors had much to do with those.
WWI: I simply don't know. The assassination of Ferdinand is always given as the reason; I don't believe it but I don't see economic advantage as being the primary reason.
WWII: Hi**er's invasions of surrounding states - an economic motive? I reckon it was Hi**er's pride as much as anything else.
UK v Afganistan 1800's - no economic advantage unless you use the excuse of stopping incursions which were using up army logistics.
The US invasion of Grenada; economic advantage? I think not. The US invasion of Panama; economic advantage? I think not; they simply wanted to stop drug running and get Norueiga (?sp).
Yes - ecomonic advantage is a major cause but far from the only one.

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