Residential assessment?

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marhop18
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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by marhop18 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:55 am

J.R. wrote:Not wishing to be pedantic, but I do object to my views being called negative.

I am sure if you asked OB's who left school before the mid 1960's, they would all quote the original ethos of CH.

I appreciate that time marches on, and I do fully admit to being a 'die-hard' believer in the 'old-days'

However, if the Board and school wish is to promote the school to produce the 'Hooray-Henry' types of Eton and Harrow, then so be it. I won't be going along with it.
I don't think your being negative at all, and I'm not sure why negativity was even brought up. Obviously we (perspective parents) all think it is a good school or we wouldn't have applied or cared so much about whether or not our children got a place. I can't comment on what happens on other topics on this forum but I have to disagree with parents expressing frustrations been mistaken for bashing the school.

marhop18
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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by marhop18 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:57 am

Fairy wrote:I have decided to "retire" from here as I am tired of the negativity and cynicism towards an amazing school offering fantastic opportunities, albeit to a selected few. I do feel for those who apply and don't get in, I know I am lucky my dd did. I have made huge sacrifices for her to go to CH, none of which I regret. She is getting an education I could only dream of and a social grounding which will see her through life. For those on the waiting list, don't give up, we applied late, post waiting list, and got a place. This is an opportunity of a lifetime, if you get the chance for your ds or dd, take it.

I think you're mistaking frustration for negativity. I'm very happy for those whose children gained a place, you clearly haven't had to sit and second guess where or what went wrong. Having no answers for your child after putting them through this process is extremely hard and heartbreaking. Perhaps what is needed is more understanding.

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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by Fjgrogan » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:42 pm

Moominmama says that they now have a reason why their child was not offered a place, and that it is something fixable. That seems to indicate that progress has been made in the field of school/parent communications - rejoice and be glad!!
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ailurophile
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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by ailurophile » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:40 pm

A very simple answer to the question about the majority at Yr 9 entry being either full-fee payers or from overseas is that this is not the case.
Thank you for your reply Howard. Unfortunately it doesn’t answer the question I thought I’d asked (apologies for the garbled phrasing!), which was not "are the majority of year 9 entrants full fee payers/ overseas pupils?", but rather "do the majority of full fee payers/ overseas pupils enter at year 9?" After all, the admissions policy was changed with the specific aim of attracting this new demographic to CH; has it worked?!

I’m sorry if my curiosity on this issue came across as negative or cynical. The admissions policy has changed rapidly and significantly in recent years, and I’m just genuinely interested to understand why so many CH places (one third!) are now allocated for year 9 entry. The statistical demand for entry at this stage is obviously lower - Howard’s figures indicate that there are five applicants for each of the 85 year 7 places, but significantly fewer for each of the 35 in year 9 (and this must presumably include a number of pupils who previously tried at year 7!). And whichever way you look at it, this option would appear to be biased in favour of prep school pupils, boys in particular, who traditionally sit the common entrance exam for transfer to independent secondary schools at age 13. For state-educated children the option of entry to CH at year 9 is less ideal; aside from the disruptive effect on their education of two changes of school within as many years, they may well have missed out by this stage on the opportunity to study new subjects (for example, the local secondary school which would have been the only ‘choice’ available to my own sons did not offer separate sciences, Latin, or more than one modern foreign language). As Pinkhebe has highlighted, two crucial years spent at a bog standard comp is unlikely to increase a child’s chances of competing successfully in CH entrance exam. So what’s the thinking behind this? Just curious!

For the record, I wholeheartedly endorse CH as an amazing school, and I’m immensely grateful for the opportunities it gave my children.

LJG
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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by LJG » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:52 pm

The London school places have been announced so if they have got into the school of their choice they will not take up a CH place, and some on the waiting list will be given a chance to attend. Good luck.

InquisitiveDad
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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by InquisitiveDad » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:27 pm

Thanks LJG - there's a lot of finger-crossing going on here... does anyone have any idea how many others make it on to the reserve list each year, and roughly what proportion eventually get offers, and when most of those offers are made? We heard today he's been placed in the sixth-worst comprehensive in the county - I'm sure he'll do fine wherever he goes, but we both kinda fell in love with CH.

marhop18
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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by marhop18 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:36 am

InquisitiveDad wrote:Thanks LJG - there's a lot of finger-crossing going on here... does anyone have any idea how many others make it on to the reserve list each year, and roughly what proportion eventually get offers, and when most of those offers are made? We heard today he's been placed in the sixth-worst comprehensive in the county - I'm sure he'll do fine wherever he goes, but we both kinda fell in love with CH.
I just spoke with a helpful lady in admissions who said we definitely wouldn't hear back before March 11th but couldn't tell me when we would either. I didn't ask how many were on the reserve list as when I enquired what number my son was on list, she let me know there is no ranking system. I'm assuming that if a space becomes a available, they look at applications again and them make a decision. I'm not overly thrilled at my son's local choice especially as it means he'll be travelling by tube on his own to an extremely undesirable area of North West London. Nevertheless, i have to remain optimistic. Good luck to your little one.

InquisitiveDad
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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by InquisitiveDad » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:26 am

Thanks Marhop, good luck to yours too - let's hope both of them get the opportunity. I read somewhere else on the forum that there were around fifteen 'reserve' places, so I guess around 20% have to drop out for all the reserves to make it. As for ranking on the list, I imagine they would try and match bursary to bursary - so perhaps if someone on a 50% bursary drops out then Admissions would try and find someone on the reserve list who would also qualify for a 50% bursary. But I'm probably over-thinking the issue.

I haven't dared telephone - knowing me I'd say something wrong and blow it for him altogether!

InquisitiveDad
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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by InquisitiveDad » Mon May 18, 2015 9:42 pm

Well he didn't make it - got a letter saying all the bursary-assisted places have been filled. I had thought it was a long shot for him to make it off the reserve list as he needed a full bursary and thus a full bursary child who'd been offered a place would have to have dropped out, but it's still heartbreaking - not least because he'll now have to go to the (sixth worst in the county) comprehensive and make the best of it.

Feedback on the process: I think the school manages the entry process very well, and seems fair. And I'd highly, highly recommend any other parent considering applying to do so - yes, there's a very small chance of success, but the experience of going for it is well worth the effort and potential heartache of not getting an offer.

IB63
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New parents please be warned!!!

Post by IB63 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:56 am

Hope all you parents managed to get your son or daughter through to offer.

Just wanted to warn all parents out there,that if your child gets through, BEWARE the CH IB course.
Please take on board they are NOT seen in the same way as A levels in the UK and re- marking is NOT as easy as A levels. In fact, it is virtually impossible to get course work reassessed.
There is a HUGE difference between the CH marked course work and the results after a moderator has marked them. Sadly, all to a much lower level . I was in fact told the total opposite by the school. Could this mean that the CH s not teaching it adequately? Or are they just too new to this exam?After all, they have only been offering it for 4 years now.
Whatever CH says, UK Universities do not like the IB so please don't listen to anyone saying otherwise!!!!!

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J.R.
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Re: New parents please be warned!!!

Post by J.R. » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:02 pm

IB63 wrote:Hope all you parents managed to get your son or daughter through to offer.

Just wanted to warn all parents out there,that if your child gets through, BEWARE the CH IB course.
Please take on board they are NOT seen in the same way as A levels in the UK and re- marking is NOT as easy as A levels. In fact, it is virtually impossible to get course work reassessed.
There is a HUGE difference between the CH marked course work and the results after a moderator has marked them. Sadly, all to a much lower level . I was in fact told the total opposite by the school. Could this mean that the CH s not teaching it adequately? Or are they just too new to this exam?After all, they have only been offering it for 4 years now.
Whatever CH says, UK Universities do not like the IB so please don't listen to anyone saying otherwise!!!!!

An intereting point, IB64.

I wonder if Howard H would care to comment ?
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

YadaYada
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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by YadaYada » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:04 pm

Regarding the comments about the IB - what evidence do you have about universities not liking it? My son is just going into Grecians and is doing the IB. We have done the rounds of a number of universities over the past year and have had no negatives about IB (the opposite I'd say as they have said it is well rounded). Most courses now quote A level and IB point requirements.

The recent IB school results seem to be extremely good, and as far as I am aware, the results have been consistently good since the course was introduced. http://www.christs-hospital.org.uk/inte ... ults-2015/

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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by ailurophile » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:28 pm

I can speak from experience on this one, as my eldest studied the IB at a local sixth form college after leaving CH. The IB was new to the college (my son was part of their second intake) and they did a great job of selling the advantages of the course, which they targeted at the brightest students. However, after experiencing difficulties in delivering the course and meeting the very different expectations of the IB examining body, the college dropped the course after just two years and DS’s cohort were the last to complete it. Another of our local school sixth forms offered the IB for just one year, with pretty disastrous results for all involved, and currently I don’t believe it’s available in any West Sussex state schools. I think part of the problem is that it can be a prohibitively expensive course to run, especially in the ‘guinea pig’ stage when few students take the option up and staff need specialist training to deliver a wide range of subjects to tiny numbers.

YadaYada is correct that most Universities now recognize the IB and offer an entry tariff alongside A levels; the problem that my son’s college and fellow students experienced is that in real terms the bar is set much higher for the IB, as Universities do not understand how comparatively challenging it is for students to achieve the IB scores demanded of them. If I remember correctly, most of the Russell Group University courses my son applied to typically asked for AAB at A level or 36-38 IB points – but as John Franklin has pointed out, in terms of UCAS points the average 37 IB points scored by this year’s CH cohort (and well done to them!!) is actually equivalent not to AAB but to to three A* grades and one A grade at A2 Level!

The other important point to remember is that the IB is an international qualification; scores are not subject to the ‘grade inflation/ deflation’ exercises allegedly applied to UK-specific qualifications for political ends, and IB students are judged against peers across the globe. This can make it particularly difficult for UK students to achieve top grades in subjects such as higher level maths, where they are competing against students in countries like China and South Korea. The expectations are also very different; my son’s maths tutor told us that a student sitting down to an A level paper is likely to have already encountered all the questions previously in other contexts, whereas an IB student should expect to find much of their paper unfamiliar; indeed, my son faced some exam questions on areas of mathematics that he hadn’t been introduced to at all! In the end he missed out on his first choice University offer by just one IB point, but happily his college were very supportive in helping him to renegotiate, assuring the University that DS is a highly able pupil whose IB result reflected their inexperience in teaching the course rather than his own academic ability.

Despite all the ups and downs, my son really enjoyed the IB, and would thoroughly recommend the course! However, in retrospect he says that it might have been ‘more prudent’ to take A levels, and this was the advice he gave to his younger brother. I have to say that DS2 appeared to coast into top grades at A level with far less effort than his brother put into the IB, but I’d also say he probably got a lot less out of his studies and I regret that he didn’t get to experience the valuable combination of subjects and extracurricular opportunities involved in the IB.

CH are clearly making a success of the IB; from what I can see they have been able to put a lot of resources into offering this course, including making sure that talented staff are dedicated to teaching it (DS’s college experienced problems with tutors trying to simultaneously teach A levels and IB), and their results are improving year on year. If you have a bright all-rounder who’s keen to take up the IB at CH I wouldn’t hesitate to encourage them to go down this route, with the proviso that it won’t be the easy option!

Good luck to Will, YadaYada - I'm sure he'll do fantastically well whatever he chooses to study!

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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by YadaYada » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:52 pm

Completely agree Ailurophile with a lot of what you say. I work in state education and we can't afford to run the IB.

CH was completely upfront with us about the hard work that would be involved and there is certainly a lot of work but Will loves it! The challenge and course content seems to be more interesting to him and even his most difficult subject (Chemistry) is something he is enjoying. Just not the exam results in that particular subject.

So far, he is not thinking that picking IB over A levels was the wrong option. Unfortunately our education system is all geared up around exam results and so 3 A levels does seem 'easier'. I have heard that someone who missed their IB score by 1 was admitted to Oxford or Cambridge last year after they phoned up. I agree that the IB scores for uni entry do seem quite steep especially as students are taking 6 subjects, some of which will not be their specialty.

However, IB does seem of more educational benefit for some academic students. Any parents who have students considering their sixth form options should definitely attend the IB presentation evening and get their child to ask plenty of questions to make sure it is the right option for them.

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Re: Residential assessment?

Post by IB63 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:31 pm

Yes I agree to all of the comments made. I also quote this from a Telegraph article.

'Last year, research by economists Francis Green and Anna Vignoles at the Institute of Education showed that, at least in years gone by, universities have been undervaluing the best IB students.
Green and Vignoles’ study tracked some 140,000 IB and A-level students who entered university between 2006 and 2008. Their hypothesis was that if the admissions process was fair, then IB students rated by universities the same as A-level students ought to graduate, on average, with the same degree results.
For the most part, that was indeed the case. But the researchers found a discrepancy at the top level, so that IB students who had attained 37 points or more were four per cent more likely than equivalently rated A-level students to achieve a first-class degree. Although the study was not able to track students with the recently introduced A* grade A-levels, Green’s hunch is that university admissions are still operating unfairly for the best IB students.
“It is such a good education in terms of its breadth,” he says. “But I have never found any evidence that universities respect that.”

All universities in the UK when asked about the IB, will obviously not want to appear discriminating against the diploma. But time and time again, these students are not getting their 1st choice of university. In fact, I heard only yesterday from an organisation that give specialist university advice that if your child wants to study medicine, it will be a lot harder to get to medical school with the IB, however high the score.
The other problem is that unlike Edexel, OCR, or AQA or in fact any other examination board in the UK, there is no body overseeing the IB. They are totally self regulating!
CH obviously need to attract foreign students so the IB is very important to them . Their defence of it will be strong as it is worth huge amounts of money. But, I do not think they should be selling it quite so enthusiastically to their UK students. Their scores may be high, but not one IB student got to Oxbridge this year. Ironically, there are many schools this year that are now going back to the A level system precisely for reasons stated in the article above.However, if your son or daughter has even the smallest inkling that they may want to study in the UK, please take notice. Whilst it is a fantastic exam, the administration of it, does not reflect the real value of it.

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