Chapel Music

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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sejintenej
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by sejintenej » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:49 pm

sejintenej wrote:
postwarblue wrote:
That made me think of a visit I made about 25 years ago to HM The Queen Mother's chapel at the White House where we were told that she did not use the King James versions but one written some years later. I wonder if HM follows her mother in private.
According to Wikipedia the KJV was published in 1611. I thought the vicar said that the version I referred to above was dated close to the end of that century and he was definite that it was different.
It is hard to make a comeback when you haven’t been anywhere.

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J.R.
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by J.R. » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:33 pm

Maybe we are getting a tad too close to the old differences between the Protestant faith and the Catholic faith which in this day and age, given current religious problems in the world, might not be too good a subject.

Catholics and Protestants are slowly coming much closer together - and about time too.

Growing up at CH in and being a member of a strict CofE religious family, I was trained/taught to shun Catholic faith. The Holy Communion especially. My beliefs have mellowed alot since then. I didn't enter a Catholic church until I was in my 30's to attend the funeral of a staunch Irish Catholic friend. But that is another story.

I so vividly remember the Rev Pullen (The Chain), teaching in Confirmation classes, the obvious reasons why the CofE and the Catholics were so divided over the Holy Communion service.

But maybe this should become the subject of yet another topic.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

rockfreak
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by rockfreak » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:10 pm

sejintenej wrote:
sejintenej wrote:
postwarblue wrote:
That made me think of a visit I made about 25 years ago to HM The Queen Mother's chapel at the White House where we were told that she did not use the King James versions but one written some years later. I wonder if HM follows her mother in private.
According to Wikipedia the KJV was published in 1611. I thought the vicar said that the version I referred to above was dated close to the end of that century and he was definite that it was different.
Fascinating stuff in Melvyn Bragg's BBC-4 doc about William Tyndale, which was shown again last night, in which he researches how far Tyndale was airbrushed out of history, yet how much of his simple and direct language formed the basis of the King James version, leaving us with a wealth of colloquialisms which are still in common usage. And, of course, losing Tyndale his life.

eucsgmrc
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by eucsgmrc » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:13 am

This has all got very confusing. There's a King James version of the Bible - very little used nowadays - but not of liturgy and prayers.

So far as I remember, when I was at CH (1954-1962) the school used the Revised Version of the bible - a late 19th Century revision of the Authorised (King James) version of 1611. RV preserves the style and most of the language of the KJ bible. When you hear readings and quotations that sound King James-ish, they are usually from the RV, not from the 1611 AV.

CH also used the Book of Common Prayer (1662), which also has "King James" style and language.

What the Queen Mother used might have been the 1662 BCP, but it seems just as likely that she would have favoured one of the 20th Century liturgies.
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michael scuffil
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by michael scuffil » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:11 pm

The language of the Christ's Hospital Psalter was that of the Book of Common Prayer, which dates in its standard form from 1662, but is very largely the work of Cranmer a hundred years earlier. The translation of the psalms in the BCP is largely taken from Coverdale's bible, which was the one in use in Cranmer's time. Coverdale in turn made much use of Tyndale's translation.

Most biblical quotations that people know come from the King James (or 'Authorized') Version. But that was largely supplanted a good 100 years ago by the Revised Version. The RV is not so very different in style, but corrects the egregious errors in the KJV.
Th.B. 27 1955-63

keibat
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by keibat » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:25 pm

The Psalter in the Books of Common Prayer [BCP] PREdate (not postdate) the KJV/Authorized Version by about 75 years: they are Miles Coverdale's translation, from his (the first complete) English translation of the Bible, 1535, which Cranmer used in his first BCP in 1549, and which simply were retained in every subsequent BCP down until the 20th century. From the 1960s onwards a whole series of more radical new translations for liturgical use began to appear, of which the most widely used in Anglican-tradition churches worldwide is that from the 1979 American BCP - in my opinion by far the most successful of the bunch, far preferable to the dog's dinner in the C of E's current Common Worship. But all of them - including 1979, and also the various versions of the Grail translation used by the Roman Catholic Church, but most notably the Common Worship version [CW] - display pervasive interference from Coverdale &/or the KJV.

It is simply tremendously difficult for modern translators/editors to eliminate the echoes of Coverdale, which was and is a magnificent work, and has acquired almost five centuries of resonance. The result is a constant but inconsistent slippage in these 'modern' versions into archaisms: eg: "Truly, his salvation is near to those who fear him : That salvation may dwell in our land; Mercy and peace are met together..." [CW: Ps 85: 6-7]. Unfortunately they also repeatedly get them wrong, in terms of the quite precise grammatical rules of early Tudor English. Sorry - this is rather a pet gripe of mine! If you want a modern English translation, it should be in 21st-century English, not a farrago of bad imitation Tudor!

I would love to see a good liturgically-crafted MODERN translation of the Psalms (there are several decent modern translations which work for reading, or even as poetry, but liturgical practice imposes some rather specific and tricky demands).
But if you go to Choral Evensong today, in a cathedral or collegiate or major parish church, or listen to it on BBC-3, the Psalms will indeed almost always be sung in Miles Coverdale's translation from 1535, 480 years old and not dead yet.

LucasKovacs
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by LucasKovacs » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:02 pm

Hi,
I just left CH last year and am currently on my gap year. Seeing as it's relevant and wouldn't mind the publicity, here's my youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/rizzo742
I just uploaded a quartet of me on the flute playing some classic Chapel hymns... I hope you'll like it.
Thanks!

sejintenej
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by sejintenej » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:43 am

Lucas; the Splits is really impressive - what a pity you couldn't do the full programme
It is hard to make a comeback when you haven’t been anywhere.

CRAndersen
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by CRAndersen » Tue May 03, 2016 2:41 pm

On this topic, does anyone remember another hymn, which I think was written especially for CH, with these two verses among others?

Yea, lord, the City's mighty heart
By thee was inly stirred;
She too rejoiced to bear her part
Obedient to they Word.

We bless thy name and pray that we
Who bear Christ's name and sign
To Christ may ever faithful be
And at the last be thine.

Something about civic state and timely spoken word(s) in another verse

I get it mixed up with the Foundation hymn, but it has a much slower tune.
Possibly this was sung at the end of term, but I associate it with singing in the school hall in Hertford, not the chapel, which would place it on occasions like Speech Day.

LucasKovacs
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by LucasKovacs » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:52 am

sejintenej wrote:Lucas; the Splits is really impressive - what a pity you couldn't do the full programme
Haha only just logged in since I posted this! Much appreciated :*

RobinKinloch
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by RobinKinloch » Sun May 21, 2017 8:22 pm

I have sentimental memories of Sunday evensong in Chapel - perhaps because it followed those Sunday afternoon breaks - and particularly of the Nunc Dimittis. Does anyone know which music was used (mid-1950s)?

michael scuffil
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by michael scuffil » Mon May 22, 2017 2:02 pm

I remember settings by Walmisley and Stanford, but I'm sure there were others. (Though mostly we used the chant, or rather, one of the chants, because there were a number. The one used at the Leaving Service was particularly lugubrious.)
Th.B. 27 1955-63

RobinKinloch
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Re: Chapel Music

Post by RobinKinloch » Mon May 22, 2017 5:30 pm

Thank you, Michael. It was most likely the Walmisley.

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