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Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 pm
by DazedandConfused
Should we expect a statement from the CofE regarding Dobbie once he’s been sentenced? Does he have any entitlement to a church pension etc? My apologies, I have no idea how these things work, CH having been my only brush with organised religion.
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:41 pm
by LHA
Essentially the C of E's response so far has been to say
i) CH and the C of E are separate legal entities
ii) He was lasting working as a priest in Shrewsbury so that is the diocese to deal with
Chichester prepared a 'reactive' statement in case of media enquiries (as opposed to a proactive one, condemning the abuse)
There does seem to be a genuine interest in anything to do with Bishop Peter Ball.
I am waiting on a fuller response
PS - I have had a couple of problems using the P function on here. My apologies as there are a couple of messages to response to which I will seek to do properly tomorrow.
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:50 pm
by yamaha
Weierstrass's elliptic functions?
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:33 pm
by Jim Rayner
richardb wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:18 pm
yamaha wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:32 pm
.
Cairncross is going to make a statement after Karim is sentenced.
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/som ... ch-1484201
A press statement from Wells Cathedral School was supplied: "Current principal of Wells Cathedral School, Elizabeth Cairncross, was recently a witness for the prosecution in the trial of Ajaz Karim in Brighton, Sussex.
"Elizabeth’s involvement in the trial dates from her time as deputy head at Christ’s Hospital in the early 1990s, and is not related to her time at Wells. The defendant in the trial has never had any known connections with Wells Cathedral School.
"Due to a delay in the sentencing of the defendant, Elizabeth Cairncross is unable to comment on the trial or on the case."
I think you are being optimistic there.
More likely she is hoping that it will all get forgotten about and she won't have to explain herself. In any case she can't disclose confidential matters without the appropriate consents.
In any case she is retiring at the end of this term (next week?) so by the time Karim is sentenced Wells Cathedral School will have no reason to publish any statement she that she may (or may not) make.
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:50 am
by sejintenej
DazedandConfused wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:36 pm
Should we expect a statement from the CofE regarding Dobbie once he’s been sentenced? Does he have any entitlement to a church pension etc?
Given the place of employment I have a vague suspicion that he may have been a prebendary canon in which case the C of E did not pay him nor be liable for a pension etc.
This is a complex concept which I had the fate to be close to for my formatve years and is not well known even to the rank and file chergy (and in at least one situation, the local Bishop). If he were a prebendary then even the Bishop of Chichester could not move him from CH!!!!!
Incidentally the information given on internet sources implies that the scope is far smaller than it actually is - apart from a few cathedrals the majority seem to be overlooked in such sources.
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:44 pm
by marty
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:27 pm
by jtaylor
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:30 pm
by Scazza
The article suggests those that failed to act on reports of abuse are under criminal investigation by the police. What
criminal offences could they have committed? Could similar
criminal offences have been committed by staff at CH who failed to report assaults?
I assume this relates to more recent safeguarding legislation but didn't some of the victims try recently to report the assaults against them and those claims were not acted on?
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:42 am
by postwarblue
Richardb can perhaps put me right on this, but my thought is that Callaghan 'reformed' the law by making its wording more demotic (= dumbing it down). Out went the ancient and clearly defined Common Law words 'misdemeanour' and 'felony'. Out with the felony bath water went the 'misprision of felony' baby, whereby anyone who knew of a serous crime and failed to report it was themselves guilty of a crime. So it will be interesting to see if there are any legal consequences for those who covered up the crimes of CH teachers and what the wording of any charges is, and whether covering up child sex abuse is not just professional failure but actually a crime.
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:05 am
by yamaha
I have been looking at that after posting similar comments.
Misprision of felony is an offence under the common law of England that is no longer active in many common law countries. Where it was or is active, it is classified as a misdemeanour.[1] It consists of failing to report knowledge of a felony to the appropriate authorities. Exceptions were made for close family members of the felon[citation needed] and where the disclosure would tend to incriminate him of that offence or another.[2]
With the development of the modern law, this crime has been discarded in many jurisdictions, and is generally only applied against persons placed in a special position of authority or responsibility. In this case, the offence of misfeasance in public office or malfeasance in public office may be considered instead. For example, corrections officers who stand idly by while drug trafficking occurs within the prison may be prosecuted for this crime.[citation needed]
It has been abolished in England and Wales and in Scotland (as part of the criminal law reforms that abolished the distinction between misdemeanour and felony),[3] in Northern Ireland,[4] in the Republic of Ireland,[5] and in New South Wales[6] and other Australian States and Territories, but has often been replaced by a statutory offence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misprision_of_felony
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:25 am
by Scazza
Yamaha - I'm confused as the article Julian posted was from last week and said "Croft is reportedly under police investigation for allegedly failing to respond properly to a separate report of clerical sexual abuse."
Maybe clergy have specific safeguarding rules to follow that can result in criminal charges if breached but if that was true, I'd expect teachers to have even stricter guidelines.
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:49 am
by yamaha
I'm confused too. Is there a criminal lawyer in the house?
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:52 am
by richardb
The whole subject of a citizen's duty to report crimes is very difficult and I have discussed it with a number of other practitioners.
The position seems to be this:
1. A citizen is under no duty to report a crime to the police whether committed against him/her or someone else.
BUT
2. Once a crime is committed, a citizen cannot impede or obstruct an investigation. That citizen can refuse to say anything at all but if they do say something, it has to be truthful.
The crimes of obstructing a police officer and perverting the course of justice spring to mind.
No one can think of a crime which would arise out of a failure to report sexual abuse historically, although the position may be different now.
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:53 am
by richardb
Scazza wrote: ↑Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:25 am
Yamaha - I'm confused as the article Julian posted was from last week and said
"Croft is reportedly under police investigation for allegedly failing to respond properly to a separate report of clerical sexual abuse."
Maybe clergy have specific safeguarding rules to follow that can result in criminal charges if breached but if that was true, I'd expect teachers to have even stricter guidelines.
It may be that he gave misleading information when he should either: (i) have said nothing; or (ii) been truthful.
Re: Christ's Hospital / The Church of England / Child Abuse
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:58 am
by Scazza
That makes more sense - alleged offences might be along the lines of perverting the course of Justice, rather than failing to report a safeguarding issue.