Roger Allam in Radio Times

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Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by fra828 »

There is an interview with Roger Allam in next week's Radio Times. CH is described as a charity school.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by Avon »

fra828 wrote:CH is described as a charity school.
Well, when he was there - it was.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by J.R. »

Avon wrote:
fra828 wrote:CH is described as a charity school.
Well, when he was there - it was.

'Touche' !!
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by AMP »

Uncle Vanya: Will Gompertz reviews Chekhov's play on film ★★★★★ - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54518134
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by Ajarn Philip »

One of my favourite actors; I confess I'm extremely envious. He was several years ahead of me at CH, but I have a clear memory, which has stayed with me, of him singing "In the Bleak Midwinter" as a tenor in the choir when I was a treble. It made quite an impression, so I'm hoping I won't be told I'm mistaken...
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by harryh »

Ajarn Philip wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:23 pm One of my favourite actors; I confess I'm extremely envious. He was several years ahead of me at CH, but I have a clear memory, which has stayed with me, of him singing "In the Bleak Midwinter" as a tenor in the choir when I was a treble. It made quite an impression, so I'm hoping I won't be told I'm mistaken...
You are right, but I have an inkling he might have been a baritone.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by harryh »

Avon wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:50 pm
fra828 wrote:CH is described as a charity school.
Well, when he was there - it was.
Still is
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by AMP »

harryh wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:56 pm
Avon wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:50 pm
fra828 wrote:CH is described as a charity school.
Well, when he was there - it was.
Still is
Presumably there is a tipping point for the Charity Commission?
I don't know what that threshold might be for the percentage of full fee payers?
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by loringa »

AMP wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:42 pm
harryh wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:56 pm
Avon wrote: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:50 pm

Well, when he was there - it was.
Still is
Presumably there is a tipping point for the Charity Commission?
I don't know what that threshold might be for the percentage of full fee payers?
You are probably right but the vast majority of independent schools in the UK, not just Christ's Hospital, enjoy charitable status, which means they are exempt from charging VAT on fees. This may seem unreasonable to some as most only offer a limited number of bursaries and scholarships but, in truth, it is a recognition that parents who choose to educate their children privately save the state roughly £3000 per annum, approximately what the parent saves by not having to pay VAT, at least on the education part of the fees. This is why David Cameron was always on to a loser when he wanted to issue parents with vouchers to spend on educating their children; those whose children are being educated at independent schools are already compensated for saving the state the trouble.

Like most members of this forum I have severe reservations about Christ's Hospital having any full fee payers - full stop. There are plenty of schools for those who can afford it and it would be much better if CH concentrated on those who couldn't as it has always done in the past. Unfortunately, every iteration of the SMT, with the obvious connivance of the governors, seems hell-bent on trying to compete with the top fee-paying schools in terms of facilities when it would be much better off offering a greater degree of austerity and taking only those whose need is greater than their parents' ability to pay! But this is covered elsewhere - bottom line, I doubt CH will have to worry about its charitable status until long after other schools have lost theirs.

I strongly subscribe to the view that Old Blues go to Christ's Hospital so their children won't need to. The excellent education I received enables me to choose how to educate my daughter; this doesn't apply to everybody of course, especially the non-foundationers, some of whom are on this forum (and their parents) but it seems to me a fair rule of thumb.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by sejintenej »

loringa wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:06 pm
Like most members of this forum I have severe reservations about Christ's Hospital having any full fee payers - full stop. There are plenty of schools for those who can afford it and it would be much better if CH concentrated on those who couldn't as it has always done in the past. Unfortunately, every iteration of the SMT, with the obvious connivance of the governors, seems hell-bent on trying to compete with the top fee-paying schools in terms of facilities when it would be much better off offering a greater degree of austerity and taking only those whose need is greater than their parents' ability to pay! But this is covered elsewhere - bottom line, I doubt CH will have to worry about its charitable status until long after other schools have lost theirs.
Whilst I go along with you in general we must remember that the government does force all schools to comply with their thoughts and also CH has to maintain buildings, many of which are a century old and some are also listed (the latter simply increasing the cost of doing anything!). I suspect that the change from 26 pupil dormitories was enforced from outside - I doubt the military have single cell sleeping in barracks let alone in the field.

Austerity! definitely and more definitely. If parents are as poor as seems to be required then pupils should be used to it but more importantly, when they go out on their own then they will be hit by austerity so why not be used to it? When I married our dining table was literally a used tea chest!. I even had to make our bed and a lot more besides out of timber because we simply could not afford any better. (The bed suited us for perhaps 15 years so was a good investment!)

A difficulty I see is deciding what to cut back on. Cut out art for example and what about the budding Picasso? Cut out the running track and think of the future Marita Koch. Music? it seems to me that half the school is into music lessons BUT ow many of them will make a name for themselves in that field? I suggest that the school must look to China, India and Singapore to decide on what skills the UK needs for it's comeback to design and manufacturing excellence and concentrate on those areas.

I don't know what it is like now but my experience of music was two fold damning. a) My mother paid a fortune for piano lessons for me; piano demands practice. To go to the music school to practice required housemaster's permission and this was routinely refused, point blank and for no stated reason. (That was a prep house rule).I never once got to practice but the school still took the money. As for the teacher, that was my problem, not his. b) Just occasionally there was compulsory music in Big School - and to my ear it was dreary, unending torture as with most of the films. If they had played some decent Pagganini (?sp) or opera type it could have been different. As it was I retired before I heard decent classical music like Chabrier, Ketelbey, Khachachurian
I strongly subscribe to the view that Old Blues go to Christ's Hospital so their children won't need to. The excellent education I received enables me to choose how to educate my daughter; this doesn't apply to everybody of course, especially the non-foundationers, some of whom are on this forum (and their parents) but it seems to me a fair rule of thumb.
Sorry but you have lost me with the word "foundationers".
I went on a presentation, others went on a combination of near poverty and academic excellence, a few on home impropriety (call it violence plus a lot of other matters) and a few purely on the dosh being handed over. If you refer to the latter, so be it. Until the school can reduce its outgoings then it simply has to rely on those with the dosh. HOWEVER, as always there is another side to this; the school has brought in a number of Chinese pupils AND is teaching Mandarin so those ethnic Chinese COULD be helping in that teaching to speak the language. (I see no objection to using the talents of those available).
Just a few thoughts to raise the ire of some......
Last edited by sejintenej on Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by Katharine »

loringa wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:06 pm I strongly subscribe to the view that Old Blues go to Christ's Hospital so their children won't need to. The excellent education I received enables me to choose how to educate my daughter; this doesn't apply to everybody of course, especially the non-foundationers, some of whom are on this forum (and their parents) but it seems to me a fair rule of thumb.
Some of us are the children of Old Blues. There weren’t many second generation Blues that I knew of at Hertford but the majority of us were daughters of the vicarage/manse. I think the clergy children are exempt from your generalisation, certainly stipends then were very small. In my last year my parents paid £120 towards my fees, and expected to pay at least as much to my grant. They were asked to contribute just £6 a year
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

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Katharine wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:59 pm
loringa wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:06 pm I strongly subscribe to the view that Old Blues go to Christ's Hospital so their children won't need to. The excellent education I received enables me to choose how to educate my daughter; this doesn't apply to everybody of course, especially the non-foundationers, some of whom are on this forum (and their parents) but it seems to me a fair rule of thumb.
Some of us are the children of Old Blues. There weren’t many second generation Blues that I knew of at Hertford but the majority of us were daughters of the vicarage/manse. I think the clergy children are exempt from your generalisation, certainly stipends then were very small. In my last year my parents paid £120 towards my fees, and expected to pay at least as much to my grant. They were asked to contribute just £6 a year
Those figures ring a bell, but at university my parents contributed nothing as I had to get a job so that they didn't have to pay. In fact I got a student apprenticeship and the company gave me an annual grant of £100.
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by Foureyes »

"...Sorry but you have lost me with the word "foundationers"."

In olden times, the term 'foundationers' was applied to those admitted to C.H. under the terms of the original 'foundation' (i.e., charter.) This covered something like 97-98 percent of those at the school whose parents paid either nothing or, in a few cases, very little. The foundation acted as a 'charity' in the true sense of that word and the pupils counted as 'Blues' while at the school and as 'Old Blues' when they left.

'Non-foundationers' were those admitted because their parents worked for the school (e.g., the Clerk). They wore Housie dress but did not count as Blues. At least some would go home to their parents' house at night. There were others whose parents did not work for the school, but who were sponsored by a master - Augustus Pugin, the architect, was one such. I believe that the master rather than the school was paid by he parents.

It was essentially a bureaucratic distinction, and I am sure that the children were not concerned with such matters. However, it did mean that such 'non-foundationers' were technically not 'Old Blues. something which caused resentment in many cases and was only resolved in the 1980s.

David :shock:
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by sejintenej »

jhopgood wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:21 pm
Those figures ring a bell, but at university my parents contributed nothing as I had to get a job so that they didn't have to pay. In fact I got a student apprenticeship and the company gave me an annual grant of £100.
This is something that puzzles me. The only thing I heard at CH about universities was that in order to go your parents had to be ultra rich to pay the cost or you have to get a scholarship - and CH at the time was getting about 10 to 15 a year.

There was absolutely no information nor source of info (remember I was an orphan without support). Care for the students; you must be joking and now they want us to support them - bl**dy cheek!

Later on when I did go part time my employer found out and gave me an ultimatum; stop university study immediately because we don't need you to have a degree or we will pull your mortgage.!
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Re: Roger Allam in Radio Times

Post by jhopgood »

sejintenej wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:00 pm
jhopgood wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:21 pm
Those figures ring a bell, but at university my parents contributed nothing as I had to get a job so that they didn't have to pay. In fact I got a student apprenticeship and the company gave me an annual grant of £100.
This is something that puzzles me. The only thing I heard at CH about universities was that in order to go your parents had to be ultra rich to pay the cost or you have to get a scholarship - and CH at the time was getting about 10 to 15 a year.

There was absolutely no information nor source of info (remember I was an orphan without support). Care for the students; you must be joking and now they want us to support them - bl**dy cheek!

Later on when I did go part time my employer found out and gave me an ultimatum; stop university study immediately because we don't need you to have a degree or we will pull your mortgage.!
Question of timing.
Whilst I cannot remember any career advice at CH, we were all aware of UCAS?, and that one could go to university if you got the right grades at "A" level. You could apply to 6 universities, and we soon found out that certain universities would only see you if they were top of the list.
There were the "Oxbridge" lot who stayed on an extra term, and the rest of us who left in the summer, or earlier if they discovered that they already had the right grades.
Tuition fees were paid for by the local council, I think, who also gave a grant for living expenses, which should have been topped up by parents.
Same for everyone I knew at university, and as I was on an engineering course, many of those on my course were also doing a student apprenticeship, or 1-3-1, as we knew it.
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