Anyone else who hated being at CH ?

[time please]

Rockfreak,

I think you summed it up quite well. I have often thought about what the school was trying to form us into. A couple of centuries ago it was quite easy to understand: you were the person in the rear rank who shouted " attack " and the "front rank died". Nowadays perhaps a person who can decide to move a factory from one country to another without a thought for the personal suffering this could cause.

What I would like to know is what type of person I would have been had I not been at the school. I believe that I lost some of the best years of my life at Horsham, that I became a person with some rather hard edges. It frightens me that my partner/wife of 45 years says that she does not really know who I am. To be honest I am surprised that I survived, but looking back at my life I can see that CH was not good at least for me.

However I did survive. Maybe I should be proud of that!

[sejintenej]

Rockfreak,

I think you summed it up quite well. I have often thought about what the school was trying to form us into. A couple of centuries ago it was quite easy to understand: you were the person in the rear rank who shouted " attack " and the "front rank died". Nowadays perhaps a person who can decide to move a factory from one country to another without a thought for the personal suffering this could cause.

What I would like to know is what type of person I would have been had I not been at the school. I believe that I lost some of the best years of my life at Horsham, that I became a person with some rather hard edges. It frightens me that my partner/wife of 45 years says that she does not really know who I am. To be honest I am surprised that I survived, but looking back at my life I can see that CH was not good at least for me.

However I did survive. Maybe I should be proud of that!

How many people here can say that their wife / partner does not understand them? Ours wives and partners have different pasts and both sides have to make the best of it. I am very different to my wife of 52 years - she was an immigrant but so what - we accommodate, NOT rule each other..

TP; please check back to David's second paragraph and his writing about intensity. His source actually makes a bit of sense. OK so you and I got beaten - sometimes we deserved it but think about the times when we deserved it but DIDN'T get beaten - life is the same and we simply have to get on with it. (I suspect you are /were in Sweden which has a very different culture but you must consider the culture existing when and where you were young.)

As to what you could have been - that is an impossible question to answer so why waste brain cells?. Far more, look at other people and what they have acheived - the well known dyslexic closely involved in aviation, music, space ... or the woman deserted by her husband with two young children and no money who started a business which allowed her to send them to private schools and more. Those should be your models and it is not too late.

Look at your future not at an unchangeable past.

[sejintenej]

We can only spread our stardust over a limited number of people.

Sure; the odd fifty million or so if you work it right. Do you want to go for fifty billion?

[J.R.]

Reading this, and other threads confirms my views that the ethos and general running of CH changed dramatically after the tenure of C.M.E. Seaman. For better or worse, I leave you to decide for yourself.

My wife, Jan, of well over 45 years often calls me a hard, cold and emotionless b@stard which she blames CH for directly. To be totally honest, I suppose I have to agree with her, but it does have its advantages in life.

[sejintenej]

My wife, Jan, of well over 45 years often calls me a hard, cold and emotionless b@stard which she blames CH for directly. To be totally honest, I suppose I have to agree with her, but it does have its advantages in life.

It would have been built by your employer / colleagues. One of my ex-scouts is now in the same and has gone up a rank; he thinks nothing of, whilst on leave, joining his colleagues to deliberately go into a barney ........

[Foureyes]

Rockfreak says: "... Look at the state of the country: we're the most unequal country in developed Europe...."
That is so easy to say, but I just do not think it is true. I have travelled all over the world visiting countries as far apart as New Zealand, Russia (post Gorbachev), East Germany (when it was the DDR), Austria, France, Chile, South Africa, Hong Kong, the United States and Canada. I have also lived in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Singapore and Malaysia. There are gross inequalities in all of those, albeit they may differ in nature. For example, albeit not in Europe, in Malaysia the ethnic Malays rule the roost, their position entrenched in the Constitution. The Malays tolerate the Chinese, Indians and other less numerous ethnic groups in so far as they have many skills that the former lack. But, it would also be impossible for a non-Malay to become the head of any federal institution, such as the army, navy or police. Also the state Sultans enjoy wealth and life styles beyond the imagination of their poorer subjects.
In all European countries that I know all seem to have self-perpetuating elites of one sort or another - sometimes based on birth, sometimes on education and sometimes on wealth - but they are all there, if often hard to discern. Look at the position of énarques in France. Could a Catalan become prime mister of Spain?
Of course, the UK had inequalities in the past - but in an increasingly remote past. We have had Scottish and Welch prime ministers, and currently two sons of Islamic immigrants who drove busses for London Transport are now the Home Secretary and the Mayor of London, respectively. Even in the supposedly class-ridden reign of Queen Victoria the son of a small-town tailor, who joined the Army as a trooper in 1870 and was only commissioned after some ten years 'in the ranks', rose to become a field marshal and Chief of the Imperial General Staff.
If you want some physical evidence of equality, just look at the backgrounds of the current members of the House of Lords and of the MPs in 'the other place.'
So, I do not accept that the UK is "the most unequal country in Europe." It is just too easy to blame 'the system.'
So there!
David

[GozoGuru]

Loved every minute of my years at CH - couldn't wait to get back after the hols. Played all the sports - Rugby, cricket and fives for Col A and the school. My School Captain for most of the years was Dennis Silk, outstanding individual and friend to this day. Set me up for life - RAF Cranwell and all the years after the Air Force. Wife and self are Governors and we have four presentees at the school - a small effort at paying back an incalcuable debt.

[rockfreak]

In reply to Foureyes, I should make plain that I was talking particularly about the countries of developed western Europe that we might reasonably compare ourselves to. On the measures of OECD figures about inequality we show up badly. And also in the research by Wilkinson and Pickett in their much praised book 'The Spirit Level'. Homelessness, food banks, the middle classes sofa-surfing, an epidemic of knife crime (this not entirely based around recent immigrants). It seems to me that our fractured society is mirrored by our fractured educational system. Private schools, grammar schools, comprehensives, faith schools, free schools, academies. Does any other country in developed Europe have this ridiculous system?

[rockfreak]

Let's just take up a few points made by GozoGuru who is clearly older than I am (ie very old). For those who go into the military I've no doubt that CH is an excellent choice. It would have been then certainly. But we don't have an empire now and nor is there an appetite for one. Not that I'm knocking anyone who goes into the military. In some ways I have the greatest respect for them. Only that I don't think any other western European country has this obsession with Empire, conquest, marching and uniforms. Perhaps that is because they were invaded in 1940 and saw the sharper edge of war. Happily, we had a strip of water between us and the continent otherwise we'd have gone down too under the jackboot.
I too enjoyed sports at CH. Although the ones that I took up in later life and were best at were horse riding, and then rock climbing and snow and ice mountaineering, neither of which were offered at CH. Indeed, thinking about it, all the things that I loved or was good at seemed to have nothing to do with my education. Including latterly political activism.

[Ajarn Philip]

... rock climbing and snow and ice mountaineering ...

Well, that explains the user name. There was I thinking you were an early headbanger...

Am I the only one who can't help forming a mental image of other posters? In my head (and possibly my nightmares) rockfreak has einsteinian hair, Professor Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody's rolling eye and Michael Foot's duffel coat. No offence intended!

[Mid A 15]

... rock climbing and snow and ice mountaineering ...

Well, that explains the user name. There was I thinking you were an early headbanger...

Am I the only one who can't help forming a mental image of other posters? In my head (and possibly my nightmares) rockfreak has einsteinian hair, Professor Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody's rolling eye and Michael Foot's duffel coat. No offence intended!

Welcome back Phil!

Hope all is well with you and yours.

[sejintenej]

... rock climbing and snow and ice mountaineering ...

Well, that explains the user name. There was I thinking you were an early headbanger...

Am I the only one who can't help forming a mental image of other posters? In my head (and possibly my nightmares) rockfreak has einsteinian hair, Professor Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody's rolling eye and Michael Foot's duffel coat. No offence intended!

Close but with the leader's scruffy beard and weighed down by Das Kapital and The communist manifesto and in love with ice

[sejintenej]

It would have been then certainly. But we don't have an empire now and nor is there an appetite for one.

True

Not that I'm knocking anyone who goes into the military. In some ways I have the greatest respect for them. Only that I don't think any other western European country has this obsession with Empire, conquest, marching and uniforms.

Perhaps it is because other WE countries do not have the same ethos of looking to help the under-dog so long as they can say "I'm OK Jack".
Don't forget that British teams supported by their employers are in there whenever there is earthquake damage , hurricanes and other catastrophes (and CH actually taught some of us HOW to do all those jobs and be ready if needed to run such an operation)

I too enjoyed sports at CH. Although the ones that I took up in later life and were best at were horse riding, and then rock climbing and snow and ice mountaineering, neither of which were offered at CH. Indeed, thinking about it, all the things that I loved or was good at seemed to have nothing to do with my education. Including latterly political activism.

Rock climbing up to Severe - perhaps 6b - was available - I used to do it a couple of days a month with Kit's knowledge. That was sandstone which was a pig sometimes. Then there was the so-called "arduous training" in the Peak and Lake Districts which was pure mountain walking and camping. Then there were the occasionals - Cader Idris, Snowdonand Tryfan and The Devil's Kitchen in the snow, the Cuillin circuit, miscellaneous Lake District climbs...... and being on a hillock in Langdale campsite when all the tents around us were submerged!

[Foureyes]

rockfreak says: "...Only that I don't think any other western European country has this obsession with Empire, conquest, marching and uniforms."
You are very mistaken in the case of France. See their annual Bastille Day parade, a seemingly endless procession of army, navy and air force units, plus a lot of paramilitaries in Paris and similar, smaller events across the country. Also, there is a large-scale obsession with Napoleon; see, for example, scenes of Macron proudly showing Nap's tomb to Trump. Napoleon was from a Genoese family that had settled in Corsica; i.e., he wasn't really French at all. He was certainly a very capable general, but he could not resist the lure of campaigning and was responsible for many hundreds of thousands of deaths across Europe in pursuit of his ever-greater ambitions. Even today, his memory is revered by many in France and a French cabinet minister recently advocated the establishment of a European empire (by which he meant a French empire). It is also worth noting that the French have a nuclear arsenal which is simply not a domestic political issue - no CND in France!

As a personal prediction, watch out for the fireworks after Brexit when France tries to establish European military forces under French command (of course!), but with Germany footing the bill (as if!)

Turning now to Germany, there are many parades there - they are particularly keen on torchlight parades. It is also interesting to look at the scenes of Schutzenfests on YouTube, where men parade in quasi-military uniforms and the 'goosestep' is by no means forgotten. Even the cry of 'In drei geteilt, niemals!'(In three parts - never!) can still be heard, and where that might lead to is anybody's guess.

I have lived in Germany and visited France many times, so I am not 'anti' them in a racist sense. But it is wrong to say that in comparison with them the British are overkeen on empire and military parades.

David

[sejintenej]

rockfreak says: "...Only that I don't think any other western European country has this obsession with Empire, conquest, marching and uniforms."
You are very mistaken in the case of France. See their annual Bastille Day parade, a seemingly endless procession of army, navy and air force units, plus a lot of paramilitaries in Paris and similar, smaller events across the country. Also, there is a large-scale obsession with Napoleon; see, for example, scenes of Macron proudly showing Nap's tomb to Trump. Napoleon was from a Genoese family that had settled in Corsica; i.e., he wasn't really French at all. He was certainly a very capable general, but he could not resist the lure of campaigning and was responsible for many hundreds of thousands of deaths across Europe in pursuit of his ever-greater ambitions. Even today, his memory is revered by many in France and a French cabinet minister recently advocated the establishment of a European empire (by which he meant a French empire). It is also worth noting that the French have a nuclear arsenal which is simply not a domestic political issue - no CND in France!

David; you omitted all reference to the French army in Cote d'Ivoire, in Mali, Mauritania etc where they are as much at war as the US is in Afganistan

As a personal prediction, watch out for the fireworks after Brexit when France tries to establish European military forces under Frenbridge crew.ch command (of course!), but with Germany footing the bill (as if!)

A "European NATO"; you must be joking in referring to germany. Remember that last year they were forced to remove their troops from exercises in Norway for two separate reasons;
a) they had run out of money
b) their troops were operating illegally by exceeding the work hours allowed by law.

In that respect I have to worry about the Netherlands. When I was there when, in clear daytime calm weather one of their navy vessels hit/was hit by a civilian ship carrying out its normal work in open waters - the Dutch naval ship had to be stranded to avoid it being sunk. This raises questions about the war standard of the navy vessel and the competence of the bridge crew. One thing wrong is a disaster, both at the same time ..... judge for yourself.


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