Bokkers Today

[Katharine]

Yes, I still recall the trundling of the trollies of the little men in their brown coats, and the way they brought in a ladder to put right the Dayroom clocks.

NO Angela it was a different man who came to the clock - one from OUTSIDE the walls! He was much younger and dark haired - little men were nondescript!

[Angela Woodford]

But I can see him now - little man in brown coat going up ladder, fiddling with clock. We tried to persuade him to set it to a completely inappropriate time... he gave us a sort-of-kindly smile and made no reply.

Spoilsport!

[Jo]

Obviously something you did to him, Katharine, aged him significantly by the time Munch arrived

[Chrissie Boy]

Well, in my day (late 70s, Horsham), the term 'bokker' pretty much denoted all non-academic CH staff except matrons, the Catering Manager and the Estate Manager.

All groundsmen, all Dining Hall staff, all house-cleaners, wardrobe staff and linen-room assistants were bokkers. The staff of the Tuck Shop weren't bokkers, but many of them were married to bokkers so there was definitely a faint whiff of bokk. The head groundsman was a sort of semi-bokker, with one foot in the bokker camp and the other in the estate office.

As to whether 'bokker' was a derogatory term.....I don't think we saw it that way. It was just a term, full stop, denoting a certain category of employ. Thus it fell into the same zone as 'Scout' at Oxford University ("What is a Scout?
College staff (male or female) responsible for cleaning and maintaining Lincoln's rooms and for serving at table. The scout is usually a cheery soul that wakes you up and could keep a file on your private life for MI5. " - Lincoln College website)

True, one might not have wished to grow up to be a bokker, but the term itself was never intended as a put-down. It just meant 'estate worker' in the broadest sense.

I still wonder how it was that bokkering in the Dining Hall attracted so many Hispanics in my day. It wasn't as if Horsham was noted for its large Hispanic community. Was there some sort of arrangement between the British and Spanish governments, as a sop over the continued occupation of Gibraltar?

[Angela Woodford]

Obviously something you did to him, Katharine, aged him significantly by the time Munch arrived

Just choked into my coffee! Funniest thought of the day. What did you do, Katharine?

Perhaps Wendy Lee had a word with him. He'd have been a broken man. She certainly shattered the nerves of Mrs Scroggie and Mrs Palsey, poor ladies!

[J.R.]

But I can see him now - little man in brown coat going up ladder, fiddling with clock. We tried to persuade him to set it to a completely inappropriate time... he gave us a sort-of-kindly smile and made no reply.

Spoilsport!

I'm SO glad you must have checked your post very carefully for 'typos', Angela !

[Richard Ruck]

Well, in my day (late 70s, Horsham), the term 'bokker' pretty much denoted all non-academic CH staff except matrons, the Catering Manager and the Estate Manager.

All groundsmen, all Dining Hall staff, all house-cleaners, wardrobe staff and linen-room assistants were bokkers. The staff of the Tuck Shop weren't bokkers, but many of them were married to bokkers so there was definitely a faint whiff of bokk. The head groundsman was a sort of semi-bokker, with one foot in the bokker camp and the other in the estate office.

As to whether 'bokker' was a derogatory term.....I don't think we saw it that way. It was just a term, full stop, denoting a certain category of employ. Thus it fell into the same zone as 'Scout' at Oxford University ("What is a Scout?
College staff (male or female) responsible for cleaning and maintaining Lincoln's rooms and for serving at table. The scout is usually a cheery soul that wakes you up and could keep a file on your private life for MI5. " - Lincoln College website)

True, one might not have wished to grow up to be a bokker, but the term itself was never intended as a put-down. It just meant 'estate worker' in the broadest sense.

I still wonder how it was that bokkering in the Dining Hall attracted so many Hispanics in my day. It wasn't as if Horsham was noted for its large Hispanic community. Was there some sort of arrangement between the British and Spanish governments, as a sop over the continued occupation of Gibraltar?

A perfect summary.

Wasn't there some sort of 'Auf Wiedersehen Pet' type housing for bockers (sorry, I always spelled it with a 'c') near the gym and post office?

There were a few North Africans among the Dining Hall bockers, as well.

I believe that long after our time there some mild version of fagging returned, which was known as 'bockering'. Slightly younger forum members might confirm this.

[wurzel]

in the late 80's the CCF alternative of working with the estate staff was unofficially called Bokker Squad. I think around the coming of Paulton it started to be frowned on calling them bokkers, by that time the kitchen staff had TUPE'd over to Compass or whoever it was anyway. I remember the first year of the new food contract, they had done all the sums wrong (mainly as Brake Bros trays of food don't divide well into tables of 14 as each is made to feed 8-10) and started to run out of cash there was a lot of complaining.

Do they still do house bread and house biscuits ?

I have memories of nobody having knives so pealing the wrapper off the butter pats and just rubbing them over the bread. 5 loaves of white and 2 of brown daily for each senior house

[Mid A 15]

In my day, Neill, it was any (male) that was an estate worker or someone who did school maintenance.

Since then, as I understand it, it has been extended to include catering/house staff.

My understanding too.

[Angela Woodford]

Your food was from Brake Bros?

I never realised that!

[Katharine]

Obviously something you did to him, Katharine, aged him significantly by the time Munch arrived

Just choked into my coffee! Funniest thought of the day. What did you do, Katharine?

Perhaps Wendy Lee had a word with him. He'd have been a broken man. She certainly shattered the nerves of Mrs Scroggie and Mrs Palsey, poor ladies!

Well it would be telling wouldn't it! Perhaps he tried to have his wicked ways with some girls! He came around weekly to wind the clocks, can't remember which day, and then also came on the Saturday when the clocks changed. He worked in one of the jewellers in Hertford and was one of the few people we regularly saw from the world outside. Sad to say, I don't even remember trying to speak to him!

It must have taken him ages each week if he had to visit every classroom as well as every house etc, I hope he was well paid for it.

[Requested Removal 18]

in the late 80's the CCF alternative of working with the estate staff was unofficially called Bokker Squad. I think around the coming of Paulton it started to be frowned on calling them bokkers, by that time the kitchen staff had TUPE'd over to Compass or whoever it was anyway. I remember the first year of the new food contract, they had done all the sums wrong (mainly as Brake Bros trays of food don't divide well into tables of 14 as each is made to feed 8-10) and started to run out of cash there was a lot of complaining.

Do they still do house bread and house biscuits ?

I have memories of nobody having knives so pealing the wrapper off the butter pats and just rubbing them over the bread. 5 loaves of white and 2 of brown daily for each senior house

I think with the kitchen staff budget cock-up they'd basically spent almost the whole year's budget in one term. That term was very good for food...

I also remember Poulton being very PC, but when I was there as Wurzel has stated, the estate group was known as Bokker Squad and just about any member of estate or kitchen staff was a bokker.

[postwarblue]

I'm surprised Neill didn't recognise the term. The bokkers were 'old' (to us) men who cleaned the bogs, got our trunks to and from the station, and were the general odd-job men. They may have been a conduit for cigarettes and betting slips for boys so base as to be interested in such things.

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

I admit to a Fast- Fading Memory ---- but I am sure that I never heard the term between 1940 and 1946 ---

Is there anybody, still alive, who can enlighten us ?

[Great Plum]

A bokker or bocker was a member of the catering staff when I was there... originally they were mostly geordie but by the time I left, they were mostly South African graduates who earnt more money putting slop on our plates than being an accountant back home...