Uniform

[michael scuffil]

For examples of Grecians wearing plates, see the ColB house photo for 1961, where there are two of them (both RAF, I think).

[Katharine]

For an example of a right-shoulder plate, see

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=747

3rd boy from right, bottom row, in the Lamb B 53 (?) picture.

By placing him next to one with a left hand plate it really does show they are different! Two lads further back seem to have their plates almost on their shoulders rather than the front of the coat.

How are these plates fixed? Did girls have them as soon as they arrived at Horsham - my niece was an RAF presentee (? term?) and was there at the merger.

[jhopgood]

Wearing breeches knee-buttons undone was another affectation. But this was officially forbidden.

Well, if that was officially forbidden... I find it hard to understand why wearing the girdle with the buckle at the back was not forbidden also.
As I have said before, if you have to wear a uniform it should be worn correctly. I would like to see a bit of dress discipline introduced at CH if only as a show of respect to those who have gone before.

You don't need to forbid something that no one does. And in the 60s, no one wore their buckle at the back.

Not sure about that.

I seem to remember that Lloyd and Fordham, Maine A, along with Arthur Parker, Barnes B, Medwell, Peele B. I think, and some others, started wearing the girdle low and the buckle at the side or the back. To be honest, at the time, I did not even think it might not be approved use of the uniform.
They also produced a nonentities list, supposedly of pupils at CH whom no-one knew. I always thought it a bit stupid as if you were on the list, then obviously someone knew you.

[michael scuffil]

For an example of a right-shoulder plate, see

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=747

3rd boy from right, bottom row, in the Lamb B 53 (?) picture.

By placing him next to one with a left hand plate it really does show they are different! Two lads further back seem to have their plates almost on their shoulders rather than the front of the coat.

How are these plates fixed? Did girls have them as soon as they arrived at Horsham - my niece was an RAF presentee (? term?) and was there at the merger.

The plates were sewn on, and transferred from coat to coat at the end of the year. Whether they were high or low on the shoulder simply depended on how the housemaid (for it was she) held the coat when she did it.

[englishangel]

The Hertford plates were brooches AFAIK, because as has already been mentioned we wore a different uniform summer and winter and again on Sunday.

[sejintenej]

We've seen it before:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -1552.html

[michael scuffil]

Incidentally, do (male) button grecians still wear different bands from the plebs? (The collar part used to be considerably narrower.)

And does anybody know why grecians' coats have no yellow lining?

And further to my posts above about plates: after dredging antiquarian books on google, I've come to the conclusion that Stone's Foundation no longer existed in the 20th century, and that the right-shoulder badge wearers (two only at any one time) were on Stock's Foundation.

[Foureyes]

To pick up a number of points.
1. Grecians wearing plates. This was certainly not the case in the early 50s, but may have crept in when the first RAF Foundationers reached Grecian status in the early 60s.
2. Hertford girls wearing plates.To the best of my knowledge the following "badges" only were worn at Hertford: 1. Marker's badge, worn on a ribbon around the neck and denoting a girl who read chapters from the Bible to other girls in her Ward (see portrait of Susannah Holmes). Discontinued in the 1890s 2. Monitresses badge (actually a brooch) was introduced in 1916 and worn until 1985. RAF Foundationers' Brooch. This was similar in design to the boys' plate, but with the boys' naughty bits delicately glossed over (check one if you don't believe me!). As far as I know, girls presented under the RMS or West's schemes did not wear a distinguishing badge or brooch. Incidentally, I suggest that the reason girls did not wear the full-size RAF plates was that they are actually quite heavy and would have dragged down the material on the various dresses worn at Hertford, which is not the case with the more robust material of the Housie gown now worn at Horsham.
3. Grecians coats have no yellow lining. The smell of some types of yellow dye was supposed to deter mites, lice and other vermin and was adopted by C.H. in 1638. I suppose that the reason Grecians did not have yellow liners was that they were so refined, so superior and so fragrant that the said vermin dared not go near them in the first place!
4. John Stock's Foundation. May still exist - not sure. Watch this space.
David

[NEILL THE NOTORIOUS]

The idea of wearing Girdles, lower, according to Seniority, was certainly current in the 40s, and I imagine, long before that !

It was joked, that some Grecians were in danger of tripping over their Girdles !

Neither Broadie Buckles, nor the "Snake Lock" of junior Girdles, were EVER worn at the back, at that time. nor were there any double Buckles.
I enquired about these during a visit to CH, and was informed that it was a fashion to wear your Brother's (Or perhaps now your Sister's) Buckel, in addition to yours, because they, also, had been at CH.

Discuss -- ?

[sejintenej]

The idea of wearing Girdles, lower, according to Seniority, was certainly current in the 40s, and I imagine, long before that !

It was joked, that some Grecians were in danger of tripping over their Girdles !

Neither Broadie Buckles, nor the "Snake Lock" of junior Girdles, were EVER worn at the back, at that time. nor were there any double Buckles.
I enquired about these during a visit to CH, and was informed that it was a fashion to wear your Brother's (Or perhaps now your Sister's) Buckel, in addition to yours, because they, also, had been at CH.

Discuss -- ?

1953 - 1961: no double buckles - I suspec t that they wouldn't have been tolerated.
When you got your broadie buckle it was worn centre front, waist seam high. As you got more senior then it dropped and could get slightly askew - not more than to the side. Button grecians seemed to wear it front, a bit low.
There was a fashion to get a narrow girdle, split it with two cuts lengthwise but not quite to the ends, and then braid it** and use it as a belt. Our narrow girdles had conventional buckles - not the snake hook I remember from the late 40's and early 50's on belts.

*given there were no loose ends there was a knack to learn.

[michael scuffil]

Girdles stretched* and frayed, and as far as I know no one minded if you kept the old one at the end of a year, and I remember the fashion for plaiting old girdles to make belts.

*They stretched quite quickly at first. You had to cut a new hole for the buckle hook after two or three weeks. I imagine this is still the case.

As for the height of girdles, I remember being told by my nursemaid "It's a girdle, not a belt. You shouldn't wear it tight." But he also warned me not to wear it too loose, for the reasons given above.

[michael scuffil]

Talking of belts, as late as the 50s and early 60s they were officially forbidden, and you were supposed to wear braces. Most people preferred belts, but in some houses (Mid A comes to mind), the wearing of braces was enforced. (I imagine to prevent breeches being worn at half-mast, another not uncommon affectation.)

I vaguely remember a change in the design of breeches shortly before I left, which made them virtually self-supporting.

[postwarblue]

Just checked - the hallmark on my Broadie buckle seems to be 1952 so that must be when they first came on sale after the war. Col B had a Travers buckle, I was lent it I think when I got my buttons.

[Angela Woodford]

Interesting, isn't it?

That the drooping of mens' britches indicates cool and virility, whereas wearing around the waistline is a bit worthy and geeky? Even at a wholesome traditional institution like Horsham?

Just like the Builders' Bum!

[J.R.]

and on the subject of builders bum.....

Someone many years younger than me, over a pint or three in the local, was getting heated about the male 'yoof' of today wearing their jeans top half way down their buttocks with a good three inches of boxer-shorts showing.

I mentioned, that I too, found it un-sightly, but added it made a great place to discard a fag-butt !