Absenteeism

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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michael scuffil
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Re: Absenteeism

Post by michael scuffil » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:31 pm

Chrissie Boy wrote:Re. the concept of School Beatings, I remember Alan O'Neal (Ma.A/Col.B, 1970s) telling me that when his uncle was at the school (1950s?) there was a big outbreak of thievery amongst the pupils and when the guilty parties were finally identified they were caned in the Quad in front of the entire school.

Was this a School Beating?

It sounds a bit like the old-time phenomenon of a large crowd assembling to watch a public execution, only in this case compulsory. Presumably the spectators were intended to watch and learn.

There's nothing quite like a nice bit of light entertainment.
I think if this had actually happened within the school memory of any boy still there when I arrived (i.e. after 1948) I might have heard about it. I didn't. Nor is it mentioned in his memoirs by Magee (who left in 1947). Frankly, I think it's a myth.

The only times I saw boys being caned in public were not at CH, but in my primary school, where it was routine.
Th.B. 27 1955-63

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by sejintenej » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:58 pm

J.R. wrote: The only stroke I received was when I laughed out loud, when the boy Mr Eagle was about to 'slipper' looked back between his legs and quickly 'hopped' forward so Mr Eagle missed completely !

My laugh earnt me one strike of the gym-shoe.

Coleridge 'B' canings were administered in the masters studys. Certainly no public beatings during CMES's days.
I wonder how he accounted for that on your school record. Perhaps you should demand to see the entry under the Freedom of Information Act and then demand that it be corrected.
(OK I just like causing trouble)

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by Foureyes » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:52 am

Ah, memories! I was beaten twice. Once in Prep B (Keep, 3, gymshoe), once in Lamb B (Archbold, 6, cane). Both took place in the relevant studies.
I was at Housie from 1948-55 and never witnessed nor heard of a public beating of any sort. Nor can I remember any major outbreak of theft in that time.
I believe that the story of public beatings is, like so many good stories, rooted in truth, but in the distant past. It is certainly true that in Newgate Street in the early XIXth century expulsion from the school was carried out in front of the entire student body and involved being deprived of the Housie gown, a beating and then being escorted through the school to the gates by the beadles. However, I doubt that such a pratice survived the move to Horsham.
:shock:

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by J.R. » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:35 pm

sejintenej wrote:
J.R. wrote: The only stroke I received was when I laughed out loud, when the boy Mr Eagle was about to 'slipper' looked back between his legs and quickly 'hopped' forward so Mr Eagle missed completely !

My laugh earnt me one strike of the gym-shoe.

Coleridge 'B' canings were administered in the masters studys. Certainly no public beatings during CMES's days.
I wonder how he accounted for that on your school record. Perhaps you should demand to see the entry under the Freedom of Information Act and then demand that it be corrected.
(OK I just like causing trouble)

It used to be law that punishment books were kept,

I did query this several years ago to see if they still existed at CH in the archives. No response !
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by Fjgrogan » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:48 pm

That's the law that saved me a caning in my junior school days! Apparently there had never been a girl's name in the punishment book, so they gave me another punishment instead which turned out to be far more humiliating. I noticed however that my mother's cousin's name had appeared frequently - he went on eventually to become a probation officer!
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Re: Absenteeism

Post by J.R. » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:57 pm

Fjgrogan wrote:That's the law that saved me a caning in my junior school days! Apparently there had never been a girl's name in the punishment book, so they gave me another punishment instead which turned out to be far more humiliating. I noticed however that my mother's cousin's name had appeared frequently - he went on eventually to become a probation officer!

Par for the course ??
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by NEILL THE NOTORIOUS » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:37 am

The only canings in Ba B, in the 40s, were carried out by L M Carey, in his study, I understand that he used a slipper, for Juniors.
On a Ba B reunion, I was shown around by two delightful Ladies, who,when we came to their Senior Common Room, caused me to remark "This was the Housemaster's Study -- I was beaten in here" ---------- they asked "Where ?"

There are two answers to this question ------ I chose the safer, and pointed to a corner !!! :oops:

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by J.R. » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:28 pm

NEILL THE NOTORIOUS wrote:The only canings in Ba B, in the 40s, were carried out by L M Carey, in his study, I understand that he used a slipper, for Juniors.
On a Ba B reunion, I was shown around by two delightful Ladies, who,when we came to their Senior Common Room, caused me to remark "This was the Housemaster's Study -- I was beaten in here" ---------- they asked "Where ?"

There are two answers to this question ------ I chose the safer, and pointed to a corner !!! :oops:

You gentleman, you !!
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by Alan_O'Neal » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:40 pm

Hi Chrissie Boy and sejintenej
I've only just discovered this forum, and seen your posts (from 2011!)which related to my uncle who witnessed the public flogging in the Quad. This was one of the stories he told me when he heard I was to go to CH!
He was born in 1928, so would've been there around 1940's, with the head teacher being Flecker.
When I was interviewed for my place, one of the panel was Arthur Ryder - who I understand was an art teacher, and he remembered my uncle as he was an outstanding artist - who went on to make a career in commercial art.

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by Alan_O'Neal » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:44 pm

Hi Chrissie Boy and sejintenej
I've only just discovered this forum, and seen your posts (from 2011!)which related to my uncle who witnessed the public flogging in the Quad. This was one of the stories he told me when he heard I was to go to CH!
He was born in 1928, so would've been there around 1940's, with the head teacher being Flecker.
When I was interviewed for my place, one of the panel was Arthur Ryder - who I understand was an art teacher, and he remembered my uncle as he was an outstanding artist - who went on to make a career in commercial art.
sejintenej wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:13 pm
Chrissie Boy wrote:Re. the concept of School Beatings, I remember Alan O'Neal (Ma.A/Col.A, 1970s) telling me that when his uncle was at the school (1950s?) there was a big outbreak of thievery amongst the pupils and when the guilty parties were finally identified they were caned in the Quad in front of the entire school.

Was this a School Beating?

It sounds a bit like the old-time phenomenon of a large crowd assembling to watch a public execution, only in this case compulsory. Presumably the spectators were intended to watch and learn.

There's nothing quite like a nice bit of light entertainment.
Doesn't sound right; beatings were generally given in private. As exceptions, in Prep A Mr Jones went around a complete dormitory administering one stroke of the slipper to each boy; it was the end of term and there was a pillow fight after lights-out.
Kit, almost fresh from the pub (but dead sober) came into the day-room late one night to tell the monitors that he had just broken his record - 36 strokes in one session. I don't know the details - victims, crimes, whether in front of each other or singly etc. though of course I had suspicions.
The idea of a public beating in the quad does not sound right and I heard nothing about it between 1952 and 1961 nor talk of earlier events.

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by Foureyes » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:23 pm

Public beating in the quad? I was at C.H. from 1948 to 1955 and am positive that if such an event had taken place I would remember it - which I do not!
David

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by sejintenej » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:40 pm

Welcome, Alan.

I started in 1952 and saw the fifties out. I certainly do not remember mention of beatings in the quad.

I referred to Kit's personal best; it was his practice to punish separately, not in front of others though, given the circumstances I cannot be categorical..

Be aware that there were stories intended to terrify. I very vaguely remember stories of things being nicked - it happened frequently and one dealt with it quietly; if masters heard about it from someone then that person's life would not be worth living.
I called the police about a murder on the lawn
but they said they couldn't do anything about crows so stop calling

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by Martin » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:44 am

I too was at CH during the 50s and certainly neither witnessed nor ever heard of any public flogging of boys, although there were plenty of beatings, usually with a cane on the buttocks in the privacy of the master’s study. Comments have been made elsewhere on the clear sadism of some masters (eg Mr DS Macnutt, as described in Norman Longmate’s autobiography, The Shaping Season: an Author's Autobiography - Childhood and Schooldays, Fairford Press, 2000.)

It was commonplace for the beaten to display their stripes in the dormitory the same evening. For those young readers unfamiliar with such punishment if several stripes were superimposed, the pain and suffering were much worse.

BUT I have in my possession a letter written by C Byers, Lamb B 18-22 which contains the following extract, referring to the last term of 1918,
Dr Upcott (the ‘Butch’) was viewed with much awe. I recall an appearance of his in Hall after lunch with the school Sergt, when six boys were sentenced and caned after a sermon on personal purity and the sinners expelled immediately afterwards.
Another reference to a much earlier public beating can be found in The Christ’s Hospital Book, published in 1952. The headmaster Dr Upcott was succeeded by Dr WH Fyfe, who never beat anyone and expressed strong disapproval of such punishment, although he never forbade it. I suppose it was too entrenched at that time. (On taking up his post as head master, he found some birches, left for him by Dr Upcott. As quoted in the CH book he said that he immediately burned them.) I strongly suspect there was never any public flogging at CH after the departure of Dr Upcott.

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by sejintenej » Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:51 pm

A century before my time and I'm not too sure if it was caused solely by beatings but one pupil actually committed suicide. I doubt if I was the only one to consider that exit.
I called the police about a murder on the lawn
but they said they couldn't do anything about crows so stop calling

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Re: Absenteeism

Post by Richard » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:06 pm

There was another suicide about half century before Sejintenej’s time. I think it was a Lamb A boy and it took place publicly. I know nothing more (eg if the principal cause was beating, bullying or another stress). However I am pretty sure there is something written about this event elsewhere in the Forum.

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