Day Pupils

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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J.R.
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Re: Day Pupils

Post by J.R. » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:31 pm

Richard Ruck wrote:
Foureyes wrote:It will be interesting to see what effect the increasing number of German pupils will have on Remembrance Sunday and other British national memorial events.
:shock:
I would rather hope that the current generation of pupils have moved on from the mutual animosities of their grandparents.....

Interestingly enough, there appears to be trouble brewing at mill.....

The Germans, (quite rightly, in my view), wish to hold a day of rememberance for their fallen.

Putting aside ones feelings on the EU etc, the greater majority of Germans that died in the war did so because they were part of the armed forces, and as such took the risk, as did our troops, so where's the problem ?

Had we lost, would we be allowed to hold a day of rememberance ?
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: Day Pupils

Post by J.R. » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:33 pm

sejintenej wrote:
Foureyes wrote:It will be interesting to see what effect the increasing number of German pupils will have on Remembrance Sunday and other British national memorial events.
:shock:
Someone I knew (now deceased of course) was sent to Keil Harbour in August 1939 to just have a "look-see".
Whilst there he and hid wife were invited on board a battleship for a reception. When the toast to Herr Hilter was proposed he and his wife sub voce said "God save the King".
One way round the problem without causing offence.

I knew he was German, but I didn't know he was dyslexic as well !!

:lol:
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Re: Day Pupils

Post by J.R. » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:34 pm

YadaYada wrote:
The information that filtered through to us from several pupils is that one of the main gripes that traditionally sourced pupils have in connection with full fee-payers is that the latter appear to receive more favourable treatment when punishments are handed out.
I wonder how staff know who is paying what?

Or is this about 'serious' punishments where Senior management are involved? I have heard that the school does take a very dim view of any bursary students who get as far as senior team punishment - because they are seen as not taking the opportunities that have been offered to them. Perhaps this is harder when a student is paying full fees - I don't agree with it but I can see how it may be harder to justify.

Can anyone explain what this is ?
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Re: Day Pupils

Post by YadaYada » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:00 pm

By 'senior team punishment' I was meaning fixed term exclusions or even the final expulsion - rather than detentions for failing to get prep in on time or similar.

If the Foundation withdraws a bursary from a student because of repeated poor behaviour then they have to leave because they can't afford the place. A full fee-payer is not in this situation and so a decision to expel on the grounds of behaviour would have to be taken by the school rather than the Foundation.

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Re: Day Pupils

Post by Foureyes » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:27 pm

"...The Germans, (quite rightly, in my view), wish to hold a day of rememberance for their fallen..."

Actually, the Germans do have a day of remembrance of their own known as "Volkstrauertag" which is the Sunday nearest to 16 November. There are low-key ceremonies in the National Parliament, Laender assemblies, etc. In most towns and villages groups of ex-serviceemen will assemble and then march to the local cemetery singing "Ich hatt' einen Kamaraden." The Brits stationed in Germany normally kept a very low profile. However, I once served under a boss who was an outstanding German speaker, knew Germany and the Germans well and had a German wife. Even so, he came up with the "Gibson plan" which would have involved British parties going to the local German war memorials before dawn on the day, painting a message on the memorial and then covering it with a German flag. Then, when the German old comrades arrived they would pull a string, the flag would fall way and there would be the message "Don't do it again" (in German, of course.). Never came to anything, of course, but it was difficult to argue with the sentiment.
:shock:

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Re: Day Pupils

Post by postwarblue » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:44 am

The usual lily-livered false equivalence. Germans were fighting to plunge the whole world into a thousand-year Nazi night. Their dead have no honour. Ours were fighting for freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law. Thnere is a difference.
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Re: Day Pupils

Post by Fjgrogan » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:04 pm

How sad that my generation and my parents' generation are still keeping alive the hatred of World War Two. Yes, it is good that our children and grandchildren should know what happened to ensure that it doesn't happen again, but that War ended nearly 70 years ago - on the day that I was born, in fact. Isn't it time that we put it behind us and moved on? That only happens when the younger generations get to know each other as real people, for example by being educated together. For that reason I applaud the fact that a number of German youngsters are being educated at CH, although it clearly had nothing to do with the original reason for admitting them. I doubt if it even enters the thoughts of today's children - unless it is put there by their parents. Please let's not do that. Look at what happened in Northern Ireland, where so many Catholic and Protestant children inherited over many generations a hatred of each other without ever understanding why. I have reservations about the idea of bringing in large numbers of 'foreign' pupils because it leaves fewer places for our own needy chldren to benefit from the exclusive advantages that CH has to offer, but it had never occurred to me that people would be dredging up historical hatreds in relation to this new development.
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Re: Day Pupils

Post by J.R. » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:41 pm

postwarblue wrote:The usual lily-livered false equivalence. Germans were fighting to plunge the whole world into a thousand-year Nazi night. Their dead have no honour. Ours were fighting for freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law. Thnere is a difference.

I'd better not mention the fire-bombing of Dresden, then !
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Re: Day Pupils

Post by MW224 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:36 pm

Fjgrogan wrote: I have reservations about the idea of bringing in large numbers of 'foreign' pupils because it leaves fewer places for our own needy chldren to benefit from the exclusive advantages that CH has to offer, but it had never occurred to me that people would be dredging up historical hatreds in relation to this new development.
I couldnt agree more. This discussion started by someone wondering what effect occasions such as Rememberance Sunday etc may have on CH's German pupils. For our children World War II was a very very long time ago. Not only will have they been educated about the suffering of those occupied by and those fighting the Nazi's, they will also have been educated about the sufferings of many many Germans, so many of them simply had no choice, as their country was being led by a dictator.
Ofcourse our children have moved on and quite rightly too. It's great CH has international students, they can all learn a lot from one another, skills that may well be very useful, growing up in today's world!

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Re: Day Pupils

Post by ActionMan » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:05 pm

postwarblue wrote:Ours were fighting for freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law.
Hmmm, yes, and look what we got. The EU, massively corrupt, hugely undemocratic and no real access to justice unless you've got a ton of money. Better than what we faced in 1940 perhaps, but where's it all leading to?

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Re: Day Pupils

Post by YadaYada » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:46 pm

We have lots of military families at the school where I work and Remembrance Day is as much about remembering people fighting in current conflicts as it is about remembering those who made great sacrifices in the 2 world wars. I wouldn't have thought it was a problem for German and English students to mark Remembrance Sunday together -after all both countries were affected. For this generation this is real history. They are not thinking personally and thinking that their great-grandfathers (or great-great-great) may have fought each other and so they should still be enemies.

I think it's a real shame that the older generations still bring this up and don't let the young ones move on and find their own way.

But I do agree that if full payers from overseas are taking places from needy students then this is wrong - whichever country they come from.

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Re: Day Pupils

Post by Richard Ruck » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:16 pm

postwarblue wrote:The usual lily-livered false equivalence. Germans were fighting to plunge the whole world into a thousand-year Nazi night. Their dead have no honour. Ours were fighting for freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law. Thnere is a difference.
A bit sweeping, don't you think? Sounds as if you knew them all personally......
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Re: Day Pupils

Post by YadaYada » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:50 pm

The usual lily-livered false equivalence. Germans were fighting to plunge the whole world into a thousand-year Nazi night. Their dead have no honour. Ours were fighting for freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law. There is a difference.
I'm sure most ordinary German soliders were fighting to defend their country just as ours were. I am no historian but am sure many ordinary soldiers were not passionate zealots for the nazi cause.

We need to move on.

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Re: Day Pupils

Post by CHDad » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:34 pm

Hear hear, please let's move on!

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Re: Day Pupils

Post by Avon » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:56 pm

postwarblue wrote:The usual lily-livered false equivalence. Germans were fighting to plunge the whole world into a thousand-year Nazi night. Their dead have no honour. Ours were fighting for freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law. Thnere is a difference.
Utter rot. 'Their dead have no honour'. Have you been to war? Go give your head a wobble - alternatively, read this:

“Heroes who shed their blood and lost their lives! You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours. You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.”

Kemal Ataturk on Gallipoli.

When that gets said by a combatant a few years after one of the bloodiest campaigns in WW1 and you come out with that statement nearly 70 years after WW2 makes one despair.

Good luck to the German students at CH, I hope they meet the right sort of English grandparents.

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