INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Foureyes
Grecian
Posts: 926
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:26 am
Real Name: David
Location: England

INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by Foureyes »

One often hears comments on the fact that independent schools are not required to pay VAT, with the suggestion that a British government could, if it so wished, remove such a 'privilege.' In fact, ALL children's education facilities are exempt from VAT by an EU Council Directive and specifically Article 132 thereto. I quote:

"Council Directive 2006/112/EC of 28 November 2006 on the common system of value added tax

CHAPTER 2
Exemptions for certain activities in the public interest
Article 132

1. Member States shall exempt the following transactions:….
……..

(i) the provision of children's or young people's education, school or university education, vocational training or retraining, including the supply of services and of goods closely related thereto, by bodies governed by public law having such as their aim or by other organisations recognised by the Member State concerned as having similar objects;..
."

I am not seeking to make a political point, but this means that if a British political party wished to end VAT-exemption for independent schools they could only do so once the UK has left the EU. Conversely, if the UK remains in the EU, then the only way of stopping VAT exemption for independent schools would be by reversing this directive, which would have to apply to ALL schools (i.e., both independent and State-run) and would apply throughout the EU. Somehow I do not see that being very popular with other countries!
David :shock:
MrEd
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:29 pm
Real Name: Ed McFarlane

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by MrEd »

The scope of VAT is immense, and clearly for the Directive to be amended to remove this exemption would be a Herculean task. Furthermore, if VAT on school fees comes in, it will most likely come in too on to University Tuition fees, over £9,000 pa. now AIUI, adding c. £1,800 pa to the cost or a tidy £5,400 for a 3 year course.

I have a fading memory of reading of a VAT ruling on the supply of cattle vs horse semen and whether or not it is also VAT-able. I may be wrong, or have mis-remembered the issue, VAT law not being a hobby, but I believe that if the genitor of the semen is commonly used as food, that product is also VAT-exempt (or zero-rated, I can't be bothered to check), whereas if the animal is not food (generally) then it is VATable. I think it might have had something to do with racehorses.

My lasting impression was that whoever it was in Brussels whose job it was to consider such a point richly deserved their fate.
Foureyes
Grecian
Posts: 926
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 11:26 am
Real Name: David
Location: England

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by Foureyes »

Gosh - horse/bull semen and VAT - now there's a subject one could study for ever! I can think of all sorts of comments, but will resist them.
I think the point about schools and VAT is that many UK politicians speak as if VAT relief applies only to independent schools and could be removed from them at the UK government's whim. The contradiction, of course, is that those who want to abolish independent schools exemption want to stay in the EU, which would prevent them from removing the exemption, but they don't want to leave the EU, although that would enable them to remove the exemption. Life at Westminster must be very hard!
David :shock:
sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 4092
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown ColA '52-'61
Location: Essex

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by sejintenej »

Foureyes wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:10 pm Gosh - horse/bull semen and VAT - now there's a subject one could study for ever! I can think of all sorts of comments, but will resist them.
Life at Westminster must be very hard!
David :shock:
I love it given that horse meat is commonly human food at least in France and it has been exported to the UK for human food. Yes, the erk in Brussels would be having a fit trying to deal with that one.
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
User avatar
J.R.
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15835
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:53 pm
Real Name: John Rutley
Location: Dorking, Surrey

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by J.R. »

I don't see where horse meat etc comes into this equation.

I have eaten and fully enjoyed horse meat in France. How this affects tax and Independent schools is beyond me.
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.
Otter
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:17 pm
Real Name: Stephen O'Rourke
Location: East Anglia

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by Otter »

I see nothing wrong with a VAT exemption for all education.

Education costs enough as it is. Adding VAT would just make it more elitist, increase the divide between haves and have-nots, and stop those on a modest income from improving their education and thus their lot in life.
sejintenej
Button Grecian
Posts: 4092
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:19 pm
Real Name: David Brown ColA '52-'61
Location: Essex

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by sejintenej »

Otter wrote: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:06 pm stop those on a modest income from improving their education and thus their lot in life.
I get the distinct impression that this is exactly what certain politicians want to do - suppress freedom of education and thought and everything else. just like H G Wells's book
What happens if a politician drowns in a river? That is pollution.
What happens if all of them drown? That is solution!!!
MrEd
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:29 pm
Real Name: Ed McFarlane

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by MrEd »

I think the VAT on school fees idea is used by those who hate the freedom that private education represents but are too cowardly to openly state their aims, preferring to starve the blameless lamb rather than openly slit its throat.

On the subject of horse meat, I have seen it in an Italian supermarket in Venice, with not only its own section 'Cavali' but also a pictogram showing a horse's profile, it was next to the pork IIRC.

At CH once, we had some rather suspiciously sweet burgers, c. 1980-1981, and I recall wondering if they might have been made from horse meat, which I understood to be 'sweeter' than beef. I suppose that now I'll never neigh, er.. know.
User avatar
marty
Grecian
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:29 pm
Real Name: Marty E
Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by marty »

MrEd wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:14 pm
At CH once, we had some rather suspiciously sweet burgers, c. 1980-1981, and I recall wondering if they might have been made from horse meat, which I understood to be 'sweeter' than beef. I suppose that now I'll never neigh, er.. know.
Is that what prompted your forum name, Mr Ed?

Image
My therapist says I have a preoccupation with vengeance. We’ll see about that.
wurzel
Deputy Grecian
Posts: 393
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:59 pm
Real Name: Ian
Location: Reading

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by wurzel »

Yes there is a little known scheme called AIPS (assisted instrument purchase scheme) that allows pupils of state schools learning an instrument to purchase their instrument nominally through the school to not have to pay the VAT - the local music shop flagged it up to us when we were buying a trombone for our daughter and helped the school do the necessary paperwork. Saved us a substantial amount


https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... vatgpb7825
MrEd
GE (Great Erasmus)
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:29 pm
Real Name: Ed McFarlane

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by MrEd »

Is that what prompted your forum name, Mr Ed?
Perhaps 7 years of regular doses of horse meat have had serious side-effects. :D

wurzel,

That's a very good point worth noting.
User avatar
J.R.
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15835
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:53 pm
Real Name: John Rutley
Location: Dorking, Surrey

Re: INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS AND VAT

Post by J.R. »

MrEd wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:08 pm
Is that what prompted your forum name, Mr Ed?
Perhaps 7 years of regular doses of horse meat have had serious side-effects. :D

wurzel,

That's a very good point worth noting.

Neigh, Neigh, and thrice Neigh !!
(Frankie Howard.)
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.
Post Reply