Relationships - Grecian / UF

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Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by Fertii »

In my day, there were any number of Grecian / UF relationships - usually with the Grecian being male...actually, always being the male element. I have been told that the relationships were very intimate. My son tells me that he doesn't know of any going on at present. I am presuming that no safeguarding was in place back then - a legal adult with a fourteen year old..... I wonder if it would be allowed now, or whether it would be stopped..?

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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by J.R. »

After my time, however, I'm sure someone on here can enlighten us !
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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by Pe.A »

Fertii wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:45 pm
In my day, there were any number of Grecian / UF relationships - usually with the Grecian being male...actually, always being the male element. I have been told that the relationships were very intimate. My son tells me that he doesn't know of any going on at present. I am presuming that no safeguarding was in place back then - a legal adult with a fourteen year old..... I wonder if it would be allowed now, or whether it would be stopped..?
Very grey area. Where do you draw the line though....Deps/UF? GE/UF? GE/GE...? Depends how 'intimate' the relationships were, i suppose. But then again, too intimate would mean expulsion, by the letter of the (CH) law...

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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by richardb »

The school had some curious double standards.

Pupils were expelled while staff were either discretely moved on. Or there was a cover up.
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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by J.R. »

richardb wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:22 pm
The school had some curious double standards.

Pupils were expelled while staff were either discretely moved on. Or there was a cover up.
I have to agree Richard.
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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by Pe.A »

richardb wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:22 pm
The school had some curious double standards.

Pupils were expelled while staff were either discretely moved on. Or there was a cover up.
Hmmm...i have to slightly disagree. I mean, in real terms there's not that much difference (if any) between moving someone on (for whatever reason) and an expulsion. Trying to integrate 200 odd girls in a school of 600 adolescent boys back in 1985 would have been a nightmare scenario in certain respects...

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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by sejintenej »

Pe.A wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:10 pm
richardb wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:22 pm

Pupils were expelled while staff were either discretely moved on. Or there was a cover up.
Hmmm...i have to slightly disagree. I mean, in real terms there's not that much difference (if any) between moving someone on (for whatever reason) and an expulsion.
I have to disagree.
It is one thing for a teacher to be told that it is in the interests of all if he goes elsewhere and has a neutral to positive letter of reference to carry to every subsequent employer, and

a pupil is ordered to leave and has to tell his local education authority why he left and have the school confirm in crude detail why he has been expelled AND this information being transmitted to his new school where the staff are very possibly neighbours with loose tongues and is thereby marked for life at least psychologically. (I was not expelled (though masters thought so) but the head teacher of my local school lived next door!)
Trying to integrate 200 odd girls in a school of 600 adolescent boys back in 1985 would have been a nightmare scenario in certain respects...

I have to agree and even worse given the way in which the Hertford girls had been treated all the time they were there. I would expect them to explode in the freer atmosphere of Horsham. IF 1960 anti-female conditions were still in force at Horsham at the time of the merger then the boys would not have any idea as to how to behave when girls arrived so they would take every advantage .... (I don't know if the forum member still reads but all his inward correspondence was automatically vetted by Kit who did not approve of his correspondants)
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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by scrub »

Pe.A wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Hmmm...i have to slightly disagree. I mean, in real terms there's not that much difference (if any) between moving someone on (for whatever reason) and an expulsion.
Getting moved on doesn't stink up your record or stop you getting another job, but having an expulsion on your record lingers. It seems to work for you if you go into acting for example, so I'm guessing RADA doesn't mind, but if you're planning on going the Oxbridge route it'll be a worry. An adult can hide getting moved on on their CV, a kid applying to uni or certain jobs right after leaving won't be able to to the same extent.

Anyway, as to this point,
Fertii wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:45 pm
I wonder if it would be allowed now, or whether it would be stopped..?
Stopped? Yep, unless school policy has changed you both got your marching orders. As for allowed? Well, as said above, it's a grey area. Unless you're advocating a totalitarian regime, best option IMO is ensure there is open access to information and education on sexual health, consent, and sexuality in general that isn't from the "God says NO and you should feel dirty and ashamed for even thinking of it" handbook.

From memory, sex ed was pretty sporadic when I was there. Besides Poulton's 'dry old stick' speech I think we had one or two days where UF and above were told what a condom looked like and that lube was a thing, but that was about it.

There were plenty of porn mags and films circulating during my time, so given the ubiquity of the internet these days and porn being easier to access, that's something I'd imagine the school has problems managing.
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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by Katharine »

Pe.A wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:10 pm

Hmmm...i have to slightly disagree. I mean, in real terms there's not that much difference (if any) between moving someone on (for whatever reason) and an expulsion. Trying to integrate 200 odd girls in a school of 600 adolescent boys back in 1985 would have been a nightmare scenario in certain respects...
Try to imagine it from the girls point of view. I left Hertford in 65 so twenty years earlier but we were protected from males of the species, we didn't have a single male teacher. The chaplain was a local vicar not really an appointment to the school, there was no way you could have spoken to him at any time, even if you wanted to. I don't think I spoke to a man on school premises, apart from visiting fathers and brothers or the doctor, in my time at the school.
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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by Pe.A »

sejintenej wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:31 pm
Pe.A wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:10 pm
richardb wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:22 pm

Pupils were expelled while staff were either discretely moved on. Or there was a cover up.
Hmmm...i have to slightly disagree. I mean, in real terms there's not that much difference (if any) between moving someone on (for whatever reason) and an expulsion.
I have to disagree.
It is one thing for a teacher to be told that it is in the interests of all if he goes elsewhere and has a neutral to positive letter of reference to carry to every subsequent employer, and

a pupil is ordered to leave and has to tell his local education authority why he left and have the school confirm in crude detail why he has been expelled AND this information being transmitted to his new school where the staff are very possibly neighbours with loose tongues and is thereby marked for life at least psychologically. (I was not expelled (though masters thought so) but the head teacher of my local school lived next door!)
Trying to integrate 200 odd girls in a school of 600 adolescent boys back in 1985 would have been a nightmare scenario in certain respects...

I have to agree and even worse given the way in which the Hertford girls had been treated all the time they were there. I would expect them to explode in the freer atmosphere of Horsham. IF 1960 anti-female conditions were still in force at Horsham at the time of the merger then the boys would not have any idea as to how to behave when girls arrived so they would take every advantage .... (I don't know if the forum member still reads but all his inward correspondence was automatically vetted by Kit who did not approve of his correspondants)
I did say 'slightly disagree' and 'not that much difference'... :D

[/quote]
a pupil is ordered to leave and has to tell his local education authority why he left and have the school confirm in crude detail why he has been expelled AND this information being transmitted to his new school where the staff are very possibly neighbours with loose tongues and is thereby marked for life at least psychologically. (I was not expelled (though masters thought so) but the head teacher of my local school lived next door!) [/quote]

"marked for life at least psychologically"? Really...? I must admit i haven't got the firmest grasp of what difference it makes, in general terms, but how sure are you about this?

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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by Pe.A »

scrub wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:01 pm
Pe.A wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Hmmm...i have to slightly disagree. I mean, in real terms there's not that much difference (if any) between moving someone on (for whatever reason) and an expulsion.
Getting moved on doesn't stink up your record or stop you getting another job, but having an expulsion on your record lingers. It seems to work for you if you go into acting for example, so I'm guessing RADA doesn't mind, but if you're planning on going the Oxbridge route it'll be a worry. An adult can hide getting moved on on their CV, a kid applying to uni or certain jobs right after leaving won't be able to to the same extent.
Because of the expulsion itself, or because of the interruption to studies etc? Do Oxbridge (or any other unis etc) discriminate...?

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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by Pe.A »

scrub wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:01 pm
Pe.A wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Hmmm...i have to slightly disagree. I mean, in real terms there's not that much difference (if any) between moving someone on (for whatever reason) and an expulsion.
Getting moved on doesn't stink up your record or stop you getting another job, but having an expulsion on your record lingers. It seems to work for you if you go into acting for example, so I'm guessing RADA doesn't mind, but if you're planning on going the Oxbridge route it'll be a worry. An adult can hide getting moved on on their CV, a kid applying to uni or certain jobs right after leaving won't be able to to the same extent.

Anyway, as to this point,
Fertii wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:45 pm
I wonder if it would be allowed now, or whether it would be stopped..?
Stopped? Yep, unless school policy has changed you both got your marching orders. As for allowed? Well, as said above, it's a grey area. Unless you're advocating a totalitarian regime, best option IMO is ensure there is open access to information and education on sexual health, consent, and sexuality in general that isn't from the "God says NO and you should feel dirty and ashamed for even thinking of it" handbook.
I think given the context of CH (or any other boarding school) it's probably safer to have a 'no sex' (on school grounds) policy, to stop further greying of the grey areas - because, let's face it, that was really always the case...

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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by Pe.A »

Katharine wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:31 am
Pe.A wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:10 pm

Hmmm...i have to slightly disagree. I mean, in real terms there's not that much difference (if any) between moving someone on (for whatever reason) and an expulsion. Trying to integrate 200 odd girls in a school of 600 adolescent boys back in 1985 would have been a nightmare scenario in certain respects...
Try to imagine it from the girls point of view. I left Hertford in 65 so twenty years earlier but we were protected from males of the species, we didn't have a single male teacher. The chaplain was a local vicar not really an appointment to the school, there was no way you could have spoken to him at any time, even if you wanted to. I don't think I spoke to a man on school premises, apart from visiting fathers and brothers or the doctor, in my time at the school.
That really is quite surreal - it sort of reminds me of the Castle Anthrax scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail ; p

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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by scrub »

Pe.A wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:46 pm
scrub wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:01 pm
Pe.A wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:10 pm
Hmmm...i have to slightly disagree. I mean, in real terms there's not that much difference (if any) between moving someone on (for whatever reason) and an expulsion.
Getting moved on doesn't stink up your record or stop you getting another job, but having an expulsion on your record lingers. It seems to work for you if you go into acting for example, so I'm guessing RADA doesn't mind, but if you're planning on going the Oxbridge route it'll be a worry. An adult can hide getting moved on on their CV, a kid applying to uni or certain jobs right after leaving won't be able to to the same extent.
Because of the expulsion itself, or because of the interruption to studies etc? Do Oxbridge (or any other unis etc) discriminate...?
That would be a question for the uni, obviously they would say in public "no, of course not, we judge on potential ..." but the reality is that a great number of places do (or at least did) follow it up with the phrase "but there is also a question of character ...", in other words, yes.
I work in academia and while some people and places won't care, others will. Some more publicly than others. Same goes for what I've heard from people who work in government departments and finance. It shouldn't make any difference, but depending on who does the hiring and firing, it does.
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Re: Relationships - Grecian / UF

Post by Pe.A »

scrub wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:29 pm
Pe.A wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:46 pm
scrub wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:01 pm
Getting moved on doesn't stink up your record or stop you getting another job, but having an expulsion on your record lingers. It seems to work for you if you go into acting for example, so I'm guessing RADA doesn't mind, but if you're planning on going the Oxbridge route it'll be a worry. An adult can hide getting moved on on their CV, a kid applying to uni or certain jobs right after leaving won't be able to to the same extent.
Because of the expulsion itself, or because of the interruption to studies etc? Do Oxbridge (or any other unis etc) discriminate...?
That would be a question for the uni, obviously they would say in public "no, of course not, we judge on potential ..." but the reality is that a great number of places do (or at least did) follow it up with the phrase "but there is also a question of character ...", in other words, yes.
I work in academia and while some people and places won't care, others will. Some more publicly than others. Same goes for what I've heard from people who work in government departments and finance. It shouldn't make any difference, but depending on who does the hiring and firing, it does.
So in other words....you don't know for certain...either way(?)

How do potential employers check on these (School) things anyway? I would have thought they would have concentrated on the grades? It's different with getting the boot from a university since in that case you don't actually graduate - and you would have had to do something pretty dramatic.

"do (or at least did) follow it up with the phrase "but there is also a question of character ...""

Are you sure about that? How far back in time do you want to take that?

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