Relationships - Grecian / UF

[Pe.A]

I must admit i am a little in the dark as to how a university would figure things out - do they get records/references from the school etc? Would those records/references state the reason for the expulsion etc? (In which case it would surely take a hard puritanical heart to judge someone dismissed for being caught with their trousers down/dress up in a discriminatory way?) Or would they figure things out from the disjointed dates between attendance and dates the grades were awarded...?

I've always wondered this.

Is there such thing as a "school record" that gets sent to the uni along with the UCAS application? I also wonder if there would now be GDPR implications if so.

A DBS criminal record certificate is one thing, where it's an official and standardised legal document that can be requested in certain defined situations. But I'm not aware of the same being true of a "school record", if there is such a thing. Maybe I'm way off, but the only formal school record I'm aware of is my GSCE and A-Level certificates, musical instrument grade certificates, etc. I doubt there is a school record à la enhanced DBS check containing every late homework submission, drill, detention, yellow card, and so on?

Yep - hearing you. I can understand universities liking the extra curricular activities on UCAS forms to show what an interesting and well rounded individual the applicant is - in the same vein as a job applicant exaggerating their activities on their CVs to make themselves look good : /

But i can't for the life of me see how it would make that much of a difference in a prospective undergraduate - unless the expulsion was accompanied with a criminal record

[Katharine]

That really is quite surreal - it sort of reminds me of the Castle Anthrax scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail ; p

True, but you need to read the messages from ex Hertford girls/ladies. Katharine hints at the conditions there - others have been more explicit. I can only imagine how they would have felt suddenly being side by side with boys (instead of not being allowed to see them at 100 yards range!!!!) without the minute by minute detailed overseers watching for the slightest mis-thought.

Apologies, i know. Couldn't help the levity...

Didn’t worry me! I’m not sure some of us even knew we were waiting to be rescued! When I look back, it seems a terrible way to bring us up for facing the world but that’s what it was. Come to think of it, I did speak to a Grecian one Speech Day, he was my brother’s best friend and had stayed with us in the holidays more than once. I was summoned to the Head, as she had a list of sisters of that years visiting Grecian, and I wasn’t on it. I don’t think I was punished for my audacity as I challenged her to ring my Old Blue Vicar father to verify my story!

[J.R.]

It appears then, that in the 'Good (?) Old Days', things were far more severe for the girls at Hertford than the boys at Horsham !

[scrub]

Are you sure about that? How far back in time do you want to take that?

It'd be about two years ago since I last remember hearing a variation of that particular phrase from someone senior in a top tier place, I was at a conference and drinking with senior academics from a range of institutes, Oxbridge included. People in academia love to complain and gossip, same as any other job, they also love a drink.
Grades are important, but personal reputation carries weight, that's why you have kids doing a range of extracurriculars for the UCAS applications. Can't begin to count the number of times I've been told over the years that "everyone's got grades, they want to know why you're different". Being different cuts both ways. To most people, getting expelled from school is associated with doing something so bad that it went beyond detention or suspension. When you can't explain it in person or put it in the context of attending a place like CH, people usually assume the worst.

I must admit i am a little in the dark as to how a university would figure things out - do they get records/references from the school etc? Would those records/references state the reason for the expulsion etc? (In which case it would surely take a hard puritanical heart to judge someone dismissed for being caught with their trousers down/dress up in a discriminatory way?) Or would they figure things out from the disjointed dates between attendance and dates the grades were awarded...?

Unless my memory is completely addled, I remember there being something (a letter or statement) from the school that went to the unis I applied to. During the interviews I was asked about things I was 100% sure I never put down on my application. Given that I mumbled through the interviews, whatever was in that letter must have been good because I got a bunch of low offers.
The uni I work at now wouldn't care, but then I'm not at a top tier gaff that has people blethering on about decorum and history.

As for a hard and puritanical heart, mate, there are plenty of them in this world, and plenty of people who love to judge kids for making a mistake. 20-30 years ago there were even more of them. Thankfully they're dying out, but like a bad smell they linger and the occasional reactionary pops up from time to time.
As I said before, outside of the world the CH inhabits, when people hear expulsion, they still assume you did something proper naughty, like threw a knife at a teacher or set fire to a barn. If you got kicked out for shagging and got the chance to explain it, most would likely laugh, even some of the puritans, but before then they'd still assume you did something actually bad.

I don't imagine any school record exists which details DTs, cards, rustications, or the reason for expulsion (although some masters did keep punishment ledgers, so who knows?), but they would have information about dates attended.

[sejintenej]

As for a hard and puritanical heart, mate, there are plenty of them in this world, and plenty of people who love to judge kids for making a mistake. 20-30 years ago there were even more of them. Thankfully they're dying out, but like a bad smell they linger and the occasional reactionary pops up from time to time.

I take it you don't listen to those radio programmes which people can phone in to. The other day there was some academic who was so down on them that they wanted all males removed from the face of the earth!!!!!!!!! OK so that was a bit harder than most but one hears a lot of highly contentious stuff from members of the public and of pressure groups

I don't imagine any school record exists which details DTs, cards, rustications, or the reason for expulsion (although some masters did keep punishment ledgers, so who knows?), but they would have information about dates attended.

and a lot more besides. Quite some years ago I contacted the office because i didn't know the name and had never met the person whose presentation I received. A few days later they came back with a lot of detail - the name of the lady who bought the presentation, the fact that the school knowingly never knew her address but only that of her sister for correspondence, details of the fraud*** which funded the presentations and the name of the pupil who received the sister presentation. Nobody could ever blame him but I wonder if Comerford knew any of this.

*** I think it was the office which told me details of the prison sentence (which I confirmed through google), the post prison flight firstly to Paris and subsequently the man's death as a pauper in Havana (which I was also able to confirm through other sources).

[wurzel]

I was starting my UF when the merger happened. It was quite usual for UF/GE girls to have a relationship with Grecians - in general terms girls are a bit more mature than boys of a similar teenage and on a specific basis initially there were 3 times as many hormonal teenage boys looking for relationships as there were teenage girls let alone teenage girls interested.

I feel more sorry for Tanya Sillett, Kate Jeffers and Sidonia Porteus who started a year earlier and had to put up with attentions of over 600 boys

The merger did throw up some unexpected issues - for example at that point LHA was my senior boys house and still had the Barnes Wallis changing rooms with only the bottom 2 rows of windows frosted. We realised early on that certain prep block classroom windows had direct line of site of the showers

At that time out of hours socially we had UF/GE club which was basically a disco in the Octagon on Saturday night and then there was a gap for deps until they reached the first day of the month of their 17th birthday and could enter the club. So after a while they opened "the deps club" which was a wooden shed a pit like a temporary classroom and was behind the common room on the grass by the hairdressers room, it was meant to be somewhere for deps to hang out that was not a bush or the back of the club - however it never really took off and the only thing of use in it was a Clix machine which was removed after someone worked out how to take the back of the storage cupboard below and get the cups of hot chocolate powder out to use with the free vend hot water. Who was or wasnt going out with/had got off with who became the centre of sunday conversations until the novelty had worn off (about 2 yrs)

[Pe.A]

I was starting my UF when the merger happened. It was quite usual for UF/GE girls to have a relationship with Grecians - in general terms girls are a bit more mature than boys of a similar teenage and on a specific basis initially there were 3 times as many hormonal teenage boys looking for relationships as there were teenage girls let alone teenage girls interested.

I feel more sorry for Tanya Sillett, Kate Jeffers and Sidonia Porteus who started a year earlier and had to put up with attentions of over 600 boys

The merger did throw up some unexpected issues - for example at that point LHA was my senior boys house and still had the Barnes Wallis changing rooms with only the bottom 2 rows of windows frosted. We realised early on that certain prep block classroom windows had direct line of site of the showers

At that time out of hours socially we had UF/GE club which was basically a disco in the Octagon on Saturday night and then there was a gap for deps until they reached the first day of the month of their 17th birthday and could enter the club. So after a while they opened "the deps club" which was a wooden shed a pit like a temporary classroom and was behind the common room on the grass by the hairdressers room, it was meant to be somewhere for deps to hang out that was not a bush or the back of the club - however it never really took off and the only thing of use in it was a Clix machine which was removed after someone worked out how to take the back of the storage cupboard below and get the cups of hot chocolate powder out to use with the free vend hot water. Who was or wasnt going out with/had got off with who became the centre of sunday conversations until the novelty had worn off (about 2 yrs)

Deps Club...? I always wondered what that was about...

[Pe.A]

It appears then, that in the 'Good (?) Old Days', things were far more severe for the girls at Hertford than the boys at Horsham !

Don't think it would have been automatically worse not having boys around - i remember a girl at CH having a stink bomb dripped on her head by one of the boys....

[Great Plum]

I was starting my UF when the merger happened. It was quite usual for UF/GE girls to have a relationship with Grecians - in general terms girls are a bit more mature than boys of a similar teenage and on a specific basis initially there were 3 times as many hormonal teenage boys looking for relationships as there were teenage girls let alone teenage girls interested.

I feel more sorry for Tanya Sillett, Kate Jeffers and Sidonia Porteus who started a year earlier and had to put up with attentions of over 600 boys

The merger did throw up some unexpected issues - for example at that point LHA was my senior boys house and still had the Barnes Wallis changing rooms with only the bottom 2 rows of windows frosted. We realised early on that certain prep block classroom windows had direct line of site of the showers

At that time out of hours socially we had UF/GE club which was basically a disco in the Octagon on Saturday night and then there was a gap for deps until they reached the first day of the month of their 17th birthday and could enter the club. So after a while they opened "the deps club" which was a wooden shed a pit like a temporary classroom and was behind the common room on the grass by the hairdressers room, it was meant to be somewhere for deps to hang out that was not a bush or the back of the club - however it never really took off and the only thing of use in it was a Clix machine which was removed after someone worked out how to take the back of the storage cupboard below and get the cups of hot chocolate powder out to use with the free vend hot water. Who was or wasnt going out with/had got off with who became the centre of sunday conversations until the novelty had worn off (about 2 yrs)

Deps Club...? I always wondered what that was about...

It was a classroom when I was first there in the 90s and then became a sort of thrift shop

[Pe.A]

I was starting my UF when the merger happened. It was quite usual for UF/GE girls to have a relationship with Grecians - in general terms girls are a bit more mature than boys of a similar teenage and on a specific basis initially there were 3 times as many hormonal teenage boys looking for relationships as there were teenage girls let alone teenage girls interested.

I feel more sorry for Tanya Sillett, Kate Jeffers and Sidonia Porteus who started a year earlier and had to put up with attentions of over 600 boys

The merger did throw up some unexpected issues - for example at that point LHA was my senior boys house and still had the Barnes Wallis changing rooms with only the bottom 2 rows of windows frosted. We realised early on that certain prep block classroom windows had direct line of site of the showers

At that time out of hours socially we had UF/GE club which was basically a disco in the Octagon on Saturday night and then there was a gap for deps until they reached the first day of the month of their 17th birthday and could enter the club. So after a while they opened "the deps club" which was a wooden shed a pit like a temporary classroom and was behind the common room on the grass by the hairdressers room, it was meant to be somewhere for deps to hang out that was not a bush or the back of the club - however it never really took off and the only thing of use in it was a Clix machine which was removed after someone worked out how to take the back of the storage cupboard below and get the cups of hot chocolate powder out to use with the free vend hot water. Who was or wasnt going out with/had got off with who became the centre of sunday conversations until the novelty had worn off (about 2 yrs)

Deps Club...? I always wondered what that was about...

It was a classroom when I was first there in the 90s and then became a sort of thrift shop

I remember it was a classroom (3rd Form English) but always wondered about the name etc...

[adlop]

So after a while they opened "the deps club" which was a wooden shed a pit like a temporary classroom and was behind the common room on the grass by the hairdressers room, it was meant to be somewhere for deps to hang out that was not a bush or the back of the club - however it never really took off and the only thing of use in it was a Clix machine which was removed after someone worked out how to take the back of the storage cupboard below and get the cups of hot chocolate powder out to use with the free vend hot water. Who was or wasnt going out with/had got off with who became the centre of sunday conversations until the novelty had worn off (about 2 yrs)

I'd forgotten about the Deps Club. It was sh1t. I remember being very pleased my birthday was in the Michelmas term so I got to go to the Grecians Club

[keibat]

Back for a moment to the Relationships - Grecian /UF topic: my parents were at the same grammar school in Hull in the 1930s (Malet Lambert), and started dating when my dad was I guess in the Lower Sixth; my mum was 4 years younger, or 3 1/2 to be precise; and no one has ever suggested in my hearing that anyone saw it as inappropriate in any way. I only worked out a few years ago how far apart they were in age and what that will have meant in terms of their school careers. He was always very welcome at my mum's house, and was very effective at getting my uncle, the kid brother, to behave.

[sejintenej]

Back for a moment to the Relationships - Grecian /UF topic: my parents were at the same grammar school in Hull in the 1930s (Malet Lambert), and started dating when my dad was I guess in the Lower Sixth; my mum was 4 years younger, or 3 1/2 to be precise; and no one has ever suggested in my hearing that anyone saw it as inappropriate in any way. I only worked out a few years ago how far apart they were in age and what that will have meant in terms of their school careers. He was always very welcome at my mum's house, and was very effective at getting my uncle, the kid brother, to behave.

I think your five final words define it. Some are more advanced and some relatively backward so I reckon your mum was fairly mature despite her years. I cannot image why but in my mid teens there were those who thought I was close to 30