What is CH for these days?

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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rockfreak
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What is CH for these days?

Post by rockfreak »

When I first posted on this site several years ago there was an animated discussion going on as to whether the 6% of fee payers should be upped further. Well unless I've read it wrong I discover somewhere on the official site that full fee-payers now constitute 24%. And also that CH is being touted as an International Boarding School. This is all a bit of a journey from the Dede of Pitie four centuries ago. The Pitie now presumably extends to the sons and daughters of Russian oligarchs, Gulf sheiks and other wealthy riff raff. If CH keeps paying for new state-of-the-art centres for sports, arts, music etc plus the dedicated coaches to go with them (they would have had to have doubled up to do some teaching on other subjects in my day) it will have trouble balancing the books. And increasingly so when we jump off the cliff into third world status on Dec 31 this year because the pound will slump even further and our own rich will have trouble competing with the international mega rich brandishing valuable foreign currencies.

It's the same syndrome by which moderately rich Brits in Chelsea are complaining about being squeezed out by dastardly Russkies (along with the noise and mess they make as they drill down into the basements for swimming pools). This looks like the thin end of a sinister wedge, and it can't be helped by the publicity surrounding the sex scandals. Are the donors drifting away? When Simon made his video plea to Old Blues in the wake of the Coronavirus problem I thought he looked a bit, er...how shall we say? Under the cosh? Down in the mouth? One degree under? He mentioned the problems that CH is encountering without spelling them out. I imagine he must have meant the scandals. What a blessing is a public school education. You never have to say exactly what you mean. You can always find the appropriate blather at the right moment. Just like Boris Johnson. But seriously folks, where is the school headed?
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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by Avon »

Well on track for 10% by 2027 then, which is the commitment secured by Taplin?

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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by J.R. »

I hate to say it but, Onwards and Upwards??
John Rutley. Prep B & Coleridge B. 1958-1963.

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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by loringa »

For once I find myself broadly agreeing with the thrust of Mr Redshaw's arguments though obviously not his, as-usual, intemperate language. Christ's Hospital exists to supply a first-class education to children in need; there is nothing in the original charter that modifies this to include ... and a few wealthy folk who want to pay for it.

The argument comes down to whether the institution can exist financially without the boost of funds that the full fee-payers bring. Once again, I am sympathetic to some of what Mr Redshaw has to say. Unlike other Independent Schools that need to offer fantastic facilities in every possible field to attract the children of the wealthy, Christ's Hospital does not. Of course it needs to provide those that are required to educate mind and body, and to cater for pastoral needs, but there surely must be a limit to what needs to built and, equally important, staffed.

We all have to live within our means and this applies to Christ's Hospital as much as any other individual or institution. Just like us, it can choose to maximise its income to provide more money to spend on luxuries, or it can tighten its belt a little and concentrate on what really matters, educating those in need.

There is another thread on this somewhere but as we start to grapple with the post-Brexit, post-Covid-19 world, it's not a bad time to bring this issue up again. I can't see the need for Christ's Hospital as an institution to serve those in need reducing!
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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by Foureyes »

Like Loringa, I find myself, to my surprise, agreeing with the general thrust of Mr Redshaw's comments.
As a matter of historical interest, C.H. has admitted what amounted to fee-payers from Day One. They attended the school, but were not on the roll - which is why it is difficult on occasions to verify whether a particular individual was an Old Blue or not - for example, Augustus Pugin. The parents of many of these pupils paid a fee to the master who looked after them, but some of the children of masters at the school were also admitted on the same scheme, although whether they paid fees or not, I do not know. This business of 'off the roll' persisted well into the 1960s/70s - it effected one lady Old Blue known to me personally - but was then stopped. However, the numbers of such was probably not more than ten at any one time.

The difference now is that the numbers of 'ffps' is, as Redshaw says, up to 25 percent. I shall not go over the now well-known arguments against this except to remark that it often seems to me that all the building and expansion of facilities is more to satisfy management/masters amour propre than for the benefit of children. One very, very expensive undertaking that upset me greatly was a Summer Holiday 'outing' of 14 days duration to Australia for 70-odd pupils and seven staff in (about) 2012-2013. I know that the Head Master at the time was an Australian by birth (but has now seen the light and settled in Sussex) but even so!!

There is now a proposal for a new large and very expensive sports complex, fortunately currently stymied by Horsham Council. Why is it needed? What is wrong with the present facilities?

One interesting debate would be whether Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Chinese megamillionaires will continue to send their children to school in the UK, let alone CH, anyway. What with Coronavirus, etc, etc, why would they bother?

David :shock:
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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by loringa »

Foureyes wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:58 am
The parents of many of these pupils paid a fee to the master who looked after them, but some of the children of masters at the school were also admitted on the same scheme, although whether they paid fees or not, I do not know. This business of 'off the roll' persisted well into the 1960s/70s - it affected one lady Old Blue known to me personally - but was then stopped. However, the numbers of such was probably not more than ten at any one time.
Thank you - that explains something which, to be honest, I never gave might thought to before. When I was there in the 1970s we had a small number of pupils who were the children of members of staff and were known as 'non-foundationers'. I suppose this means they were off the roll. The only difference between the non-foundationers and the rest of us is that they sometimes (not always) lived at home as day pupils. In the 1970s, all other pupils were boarders.
Foureyes wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:58 am
I shall not go over the now well-known arguments against this except to remark that it often seems to me that all the building and expansion of facilities is more to satisfy management/masters amour propre than for the benefit of children. One very, very expensive undertaking that upset me greatly was a Summer Holiday 'outing' of 14 days duration to Australia for 70-odd pupils and seven staff in (about) 2012-2013. I know that the Head Master at the time was an Australian by birth (but has now seen the light and settled in Sussex) but even so!!
I couldn't agree more: a classic example of the 'best being the enemy of the good'. Christ's Hospital has great facilities but it really shouldn't be competing with fee-paying institutions; it is, quite frankly, not what the place is for. A 14-day jolly to Australia for 77 individuals must have been fun but there wouldn't have been much change from £0.25M, enough to fund a pupil though Christ's Hospital for the full 7 years from Year 7 to Year 13!

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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by Foureyes »

Loringa,
Yes, you are quite correct, the term 'non-foundationers' was the correct CH name for such pupils.
David :shock:

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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by AMP »

Finances apart, CH is, as it has always been, for paupers.
Children from broken homes or orphans in childrens homes.
If you can afford full fees, then your children have opportunity. They don't need CH.
If you are from a loving family, don't leave it, it's irreplaceable.
Most bright children will do well whether they are privately or publicly educated.
The best teachers don't necessarily teach at the best schools. I know some very mediocre music teachers at top top schools. I also know charismatic, inspiring, very competent and dedicated teachers in the public sector.
People think CH is unique - well, whilst it's grandeur is peerless and the academic standards are pretty high, it hasn't always been.
I had a place to go to a state boarding school called Wolverstone Hall, which by and large seems to get pretty favourable reviews from what I can tell

https://www.eadt.co.uk/what-s-on/author ... -1-4699276

The new sports centre is needed to generate additional revenue streams.Having the locals messing up the grass seems to have been accepted as a necessary evil.
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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by AMP »

Foureyes wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:58 am
One very, very expensive undertaking that upset me greatly was a Summer Holiday 'outing' of 14 days duration to Australia for 70-odd pupils and seven staff in (about) 2012-2013. I know that the Head Master at the time was an Australian by birth (but has now seen the light and settled in Sussex) but even so!!
And why did the Band need to play at the Pasadena Rose Bowl?
More examples of the very poor stewardship which has let down the foundation over many decades.

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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by Pe.A »

loringa wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 11:19 am
Foureyes wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:58 am
The parents of many of these pupils paid a fee to the master who looked after them, but some of the children of masters at the school were also admitted on the same scheme, although whether they paid fees or not, I do not know. This business of 'off the roll' persisted well into the 1960s/70s - it affected one lady Old Blue known to me personally - but was then stopped. However, the numbers of such was probably not more than ten at any one time.
Thank you - that explains something which, to be honest, I never gave might thought to before. When I was there in the 1970s we had a small number of pupils who were the children of members of staff and were known as 'non-foundationers'. I suppose this means they were off the roll. The only difference between the non-foundationers and the rest of us is that they sometimes (not always) lived at home as day pupils. In the 1970s, all other pupils were boarders.
Foureyes wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:58 am
I shall not go over the now well-known arguments against this except to remark that it often seems to me that all the building and expansion of facilities is more to satisfy management/masters amour propre than for the benefit of children. One very, very expensive undertaking that upset me greatly was a Summer Holiday 'outing' of 14 days duration to Australia for 70-odd pupils and seven staff in (about) 2012-2013. I know that the Head Master at the time was an Australian by birth (but has now seen the light and settled in Sussex) but even so!!
I couldn't agree more: a classic example of the 'best being the enemy of the good'. Christ's Hospital has great facilities but it really shouldn't be competing with fee-paying institutions; it is, quite frankly, not what the place is for. A 14-day jolly to Australia for 77 individuals must have been fun but there wouldn't have been much change from £0.25M, enough to fund a pupil though Christ's Hospital for the full 7 years from Year 7 to Year 13!
Would your criticism include all school trips? What exactly was this 14 day 'jolly' for...?

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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by Avon »

Pe.A wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:55 pm
Would your criticism include all school trips? What exactly was this 14 day 'jolly' for...?
As it was to Australia we can safely assume that it was not a cultural exchange.

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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by rockfreak »

Avon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:08 pm
Pe.A wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:55 pm
Would your criticism include all school trips? What exactly was this 14 day 'jolly' for...?
As it was to Australia we can safely assume that it was not a cultural exchange.

They got to cuddle some koalas.

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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by brian walling »

David Redshaw should be thanked for bringing these issues up again. I agree generally with his thoughts and with much of the comment posted in response. It's good to keep these concerns alive.

I watched the 2020 ''Virtual Speech Day'' video made available on the CHOBA Web site yesterday (in my view an impressive and commendable production) and I was pleased that the tone was strongly towards celebration of the school's traditional values and ethos rather than highlighting CH developments and achievements.

Incidentally, it was great to see parts of the 88 year old Pathé News short film clip ''Speech Day at Christ's Hospital'' (1932) featured in the Virtual Speech Day video. (If anybody isn't familiar with this, it's at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPckLmKoi54). As one of the regular contributors to the forum pointed out when this video was mentioned before, virtually the only thing different today from 88 years back is the ladies' fashions!
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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by sejintenej »

AMP wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:01 pm
Finances apart, CH is, as it has always been, for paupers.
Children from broken homes or orphans in childrens homes.
If you can afford full fees, then your children have opportunity. They don't need CH.
one slight element to the above; the fee is based on your income for the individual year. When i was there it was clear that if (for example) your widowed mother married a rich man or got a well paid new job you would not be expected to leave but the contribution would rise accordingly.
Je suis prest.

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Re: What is CH for these days?

Post by sejintenej »

Avon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:08 pm
Pe.A wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 12:55 pm
Would your criticism include all school trips? What exactly was this 14 day 'jolly' for...?
As it was to Australia we can safely assume that it was not a cultural exchange.
Depends how you define "cultural". I seem to recall that in addition to the Rose Bowl in the US of A the band did go to Australia and I would expect that their hosts paid at least a portion of the costs.

I got invited to work three weekends in Australia; they paid flights from UK and internal, lodging, transport between the different sites and food. Similar for two weekends in Malaysia though there we would be put up for the middle week at a seaside resort but we would have to pay London - KL IF they want you then they do pay.
Je suis prest.

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