GRACE

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else, but that's still CH related.

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Katharine
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Re: GRACE

Post by Katharine »

Were all Button Grecians expected to read Grace in turn? In my time at Hertford it was read by one of a select group of School Readers who had been chosen for their ability at reading out loud and projectIng their voices. They read in Chapel as well, each doing several days at a time. They could be anyone in the VI form, regardless of academic or other abilities.
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Re: GRACE

Post by scrub »

I think it was just Button Grecians while I was there, I don't remember anyone else and I don't know if all of them had to do it either. It might just have been the ones (house captains/monitors?) who sat at the dais for lunch.
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CHAZ
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Re: GRACE

Post by CHAZ »

Traditionally School Monitors read the Grace during my time (1978-1984). BUT when someone got academic buttons, it was a tradition that they would read Grace once....
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Katharine
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Re: GRACE

Post by Katharine »

Thanks Chaz, so not people chosen for their ability to read out loud. I think our system was better!
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Great Plum
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Re: GRACE

Post by Great Plum »

When I was at school (92-99), it was just school monitors who read grace...
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AMP
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Re: GRACE

Post by AMP »

Very occasionally there was nobody standing by the pulpit when the gavel was about to be banged and so the nearest Button Grecian would be press ganged.
The last two weeks of the year was the time for comedy performances. New Buttons who weren't going to be Monitors and really didn't give a fig.
Slightly off tangent but another area of responsibility was the conducting of the Band for the Lunch Parade formation before marching in.
Two three beat drum rolls followed by a bang on the Bass Drum, repeated once.
Always conducted by the Band Captain who wore a Button Grecian coat with the addition of buttons all the way up both sleeves.
Towards the end of the Summer Term, other Grecians in the Band would be given the opportunity to take lunch parade.
Passed that up regrettably.
MrEd
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Re: GRACE

Post by MrEd »

In my time, 1978-85, the 'academic' Button Grecians did read Grace, but thinking back less frequently than Monitors. There never seemed to be any particular order to it, and it should be noted that anyone getting their buttons and reading grace for the first time was always greeted with a cheer, an indication that the ethos of the school amongst the pupils was to recognise and appreciate achievement (even if it was more accurately a prediction of future achievement).

There was of course the Court Room, the small dining room at the side of the Dining Hall, where in my time, two junior houses were shoved for iirc a term at a time, and where junior house prefects read Grace. I didn't make an orator out of me, but I think it is better to start with the rough diamonds and polish them than look only for rubies.
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LongGone
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Re: GRACE

Post by LongGone »

AMP wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:39 pm
Slightly off tangent but another area of responsibility was the conducting of the Band for the Lunch Parade formation before marching in.
Two three beat drum rolls followed by a bang on the Bass Drum, repeated once.
My memory is it started with a crescendo/diminuendo to get our attention.
Then, Two three beat drum rolls followed by a bang on the Bass Drum, repeated three times. The first was Attention, the second Form Fours and the third Left/Right turn, depending on which end of the Avenue you were located. A march would begin and each house would move off in order.
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Fitzsadou
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Re: GRACE

Post by Fitzsadou »

Mr Ed has told us that
MrEd wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:39 pm In my time, 1978-85, the 'academic' Button Grecians did read Grace,
In my days, some 30 years before Mr Ed’s time at CH, button grecians were so designated (and clothed) only for academic reasons. In the remote past (when university scholarships did not exist, except at Oxbridge) a boy became a grecian because he was believed to be capable of winning an Oxbridge scholarship. Otherwise, being a CH pupil, there was no hope of his being able to afford a university education. Of course, later (eg post WW2) more financing of university education became available, such as Local Education Authority and State Scholarships. Then button grecians could be appointed if considered able to study at any university and rightly so.

But what on earth were non-academic button grecians, whose existence was implied by Mr Ed? Was this some sort of consolation prize, if so for what? Was it for good chappery? Was it for sporting ability? I shall be most grateful if someone from Mr Ed’s days at CH could explain this. Do non-academic button grecians still exist at CH? What are the current criteria for this honour?

Is this non-academic button grecian situation yet another example of the general lessening of standards in very many fields, so often decried by old fogies, such as myself?
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Re: GRACE

Post by scrub »

Fitzsadou wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:33 amBut what on earth were non-academic button grecians, whose existence was implied by Mr Ed? Was this some sort of consolation prize, if so for what?
They were house captains/school monitors. Depending on your point of view they were either the most upstanding senior pupils capable of maintaining correct behaviour/discipline of those below them, or simply the least shambolic member of the Grecians year in their house.
I was never quite sure what the perks were. It seemed like a lot of extra work just to get slightly better food at lunch and a coat with velvet cuffs.
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Spoonbill
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Re: GRACE

Post by Spoonbill »

In my experience, if you did well in your A-Levels and were staying on to do a scholarship term (or a four-term scholarship term, even), you were automatically awarded Buttons. As for the other Button Grecians, they were for the most part school monitors whom it was obvious from the Second Form onwards would one day be school monitors: boys who either excelled at sport or who were good all-rounders (i.e. mediocre at most things but nevertheless reasonably handsome and easily moulded into the right sort of stereotype by the school). Beyond those two categories of Button Grecian, there was I believe also the Senior Server, who I think Revd. John Robson managed to persuade David Newsome warranted a Button coat. I've a feeling the Band Captain may also have qualified for Buttons, though I may be wrong.
Last edited by Spoonbill on Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
Richard
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Re: GRACE

Post by Richard »

After the 1950s CH Horsham was clearly democratised (or as we conservative traditionalists would say, the high standards for being a Button Grecian were lowered). The categories mentioned by Spoonbill
Spoonbill wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:06 am school monitors: boys who either excelled at sport or who were good all-rounders (... nevertheless reasonably handsome and easily moulded into the right sort of stereotype by the school)... the Senior Server ... Band Captain may also have qualified for Buttons

certainly did not automatically receive Buttons twenty years before. (There was no Senior Server in those days.) Even School Monitors and/or House Captains did not get their Buttons unless they were earned for academic prowess. But such unbuttoned School and House Captains were not numerous. I think that one such was PR Batts of Barnes A. He wished to attend Sandhurst, not a university. There were others. As Fitzsadou implies there was,
Fitzsadou wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:33 am general lessening of standards in very many fields,
I agree.
AMP
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Re: GRACE

Post by AMP »

LongGone wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:27 pm
AMP wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:39 pm
Slightly off tangent but another area of responsibility was the conducting of the Band for the Lunch Parade formation before marching in.
Two three beat drum rolls followed by a bang on the Bass Drum, repeated once.
My memory is it started with a crescendo/diminuendo to get our attention.
Then, Two three beat drum rolls followed by a bang on the Bass Drum, repeated three times. The first was Attention, the second Form Fours and the third Left/Right turn, depending on which end of the Avenue you were located. A march would begin and each house would move off in order.
You are absolutely right LongGone!
Shocking how one forgets things which were everyday routine for 7 years.
Just as well I never took lunch parade.
Last edited by AMP on Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AMP
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Re: GRACE

Post by AMP »

Spoonbill wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:06 am In my experience, if you did well in your A-Levels and were staying on to do a scholarship term (or a four-term scholarship term, even), you were automatically awarded Buttons. As for the other Button Grecians, they were for the most part school monitors whom it was obvious from the Second Form onwards would one day be school monitors: boys who either excelled at sport or who were good all-rounders (i.e. mediocre at most things but nevertheless reasonably handsome and easily moulded into the right sort of stereotype by the school). Beyond those two categories of Button Grecian, there was also the Senior Server, whom Revd. John Robson managed to persuade David Newsome warranted a Button coat. I understand that this led to a famously nasty little sh*t getting his buttons in the late 1970s, much to everyone's consternation. How he ever even managed to become Senior Server in the first place was just as much of a mystery. I've a feeling the Band Captain may also have qualified for Buttons, though I may be wrong.
I can confirm that during the 80s being Band Captain did not qualify you for full buttons.
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Re: GRACE

Post by AMP »

Spoonbill wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:06 am In my experience, if you did well in your A-Levels and were staying on to do a scholarship term (or a four-term scholarship term, even), you were automatically awarded Buttons. As for the other Button Grecians, they were for the most part school monitors whom it was obvious from the Second Form onwards would one day be school monitors: boys who either excelled at sport or who were good all-rounders (i.e. mediocre at most things but nevertheless reasonably handsome and easily moulded into the right sort of stereotype by the school). Beyond those two categories of Button Grecian, there was also the Senior Server, whom Revd. John Robson managed to persuade David Newsome warranted a Button coat. I understand that this led to a famously nasty little sh*t getting his buttons in the late 1970s, much to everyone's consternation. How he ever even managed to become Senior Server in the first place was just as much of a mystery. I've a feeling the Band Captain may also have qualified for Buttons, though I may be wrong.
Senior Server does now ring a bell but during the 80s it didn't qualify you for full buttons.
The fellow I remember became a vicar and is still tending to his flock, but was never a Button Grecian.
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